From UK to Canada: Rio Youers' Unconventional Voice in The Bang Bang Sisters

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (00:00.046)
Hey everybody, how you doing? My name is Rio Youers. I am the author of the new novel, The Bang Bang Sisters. And I'm so pleased to be hanging out with my good buddy, David Temple, here on The Thriller Zone.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (00:17.58)
the 199th episode of the Thriller Zone. It's a bonus episode and as the graphics on the screen show you, it's all about rock and roll. We're going to be talking with Rio Youers, author of The Bang Bang Sisters. It is nonstop rock and roll, murder and mayhem. So without any further ado, here's Rio. Well, hello Rio. Thank you for joining us on the Thriller Zone. So good to see you, buddy.

man, I you, it's great to be here. I've wanted to come on this show for a long time. So yeah, it's absolutely fantastic to be here. Thanks for inviting me on. Well, you should have asked earlier. I was waiting until I got just about big enough. It's been a process, but I think I'm there. Am I big enough for David Temple yet? That was the question I kept asking myself. Let me tell you something. You are, you are bigger than big. I don't know exactly how I found you.

It was either I know that Anthony Goodell was singing your praises and someone else close to me said, have you, have you heard about bang bang sisters? I'm like, no, what Rio yours. And I'm like, wait, I saw that pop up on X somewhere. And then I started following the thread. And then I saw this cover, which is just damn fantastic. So sexy. So in your

face, everything I like about ball breaking covers this book did. That's great. That's what I love to hear. Yeah. Insert accolades here, but I got to tell you something. Blood bullets rock and roll. I got so many things to say about this, which I'm going to get to in a second, but I, I want to just run down a couple of things that are, that are going to impress my listeners. Great.

Rio is the British Fantasy and Sunburst Award nominated author of Lola on Fire. Another great title. No second chances. 2017 is Thriller. The Forgotten Girl was a finalist for the author Ellis Award for Best Crime Novel. Golf clap there. And perhaps one of my favorite titles that I've seen this year at least here in season seven.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (02:35.564)
He's the writer of Refrigerator Full of Heads.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (02:45.72)
six issue comic series. a huge graphic novel fan. And this is from a DC comic sleeping beauty is a graphic novel based on the number one bestseller by Stephen King and Owen King and his new novel. Of course, bang bang sisters is out now. I am late to the party, but there's an old saying I got real. It doesn't matter if you get to the party late. It's that you got to the party. Damn right. Absolutely. Yeah. You're not the only one late to the party. So let's hope this show brings a few more people along. I'm expecting with this

International exposure of this radio podcast. I'm expecting the world to just catch on fire for you. mean, seriously, it's going to happen. I got good feeling about it. Yeah, we're going to dive in, but I want to know a couple of things about you. Now you that is not a Canadian accent I'm hearing. It is not. No, no. I was born in the UK and I moved over to Canada when I was 30. So I've been here for a few years now. I love it. I consider it home. I am a Canadian citizen now.

and I fully identify as a North American male. it's, yeah, it's great. Except, except when Canada plays soccer, in which I revert back to my English ancestry. And rightly so. And were you at the gym training before? see the Everlast t -shirt. you doing a little practicing before you came in? You know, I actually was in the gym, but the Everlast t -shirt is just for show.

The fittest thing about me, it's hiding everything that isn't ever last. Excellent. love that. Well, so you grew. So you're born in the UK, grew up there, moved to Canada around 30. You've been there ever since you love it and you like the States in general because you've been out hitting book tours and so forth and our neck of the woods. I the States. I want to know something. Why?

And this is generally something I say for later, but I was talking to myself, which I often do. And on the street, people look at me weird, but I was like, you know, where did, where did the Rio start? What, what was, what was in his influence? When did he start writing? I always like to know those things. Like when you started writing and were you one of those childhood writers or did you go, you know what? I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna dive in this both feet or were you like later in life? Let's start there.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (05:10.198)
Yeah, no, I've always, always enjoyed writing stories. I mean, it used to be the only thing I was actually any good at at school. And I used to, you know, we had these exercise books that we'd have to do our schoolwork in. And when the teacher wasn't looking, I'd go into the store cupboard and just take them off the shelf and put them in my school bag and go home and then just fill them with stories at home. had like reams of these things at home and all filled with different, I had this whole series of books that were called Hellfire.

when I was like 12 years old and it was like Hellfire one through 17 or something. It was a whole series and I put little illustrations in and I just loved it. I always loved creating worlds, writing these stories. I didn't necessarily want to be a writer at that time. I think I was too young to really understand the sort of concept. All I knew was that I enjoyed making stuff up. I enjoyed creating characters, putting them in shitty situations and see if they could get out of it. And it's still what I do. I still do that to this day.

I the difference is I get paid a little bit of money to do it now. Yeah, well, there is that benefit. And I want to know as you were coming up, who were some of those influences that you were reading that you're like, man, if I could aspire to that or if I could even like grasp just even a little modicum of that influence? Yeah, I mean, Stephen King was a big influence. I know everybody says that and I sort of...

you know, sometimes I shy away, try and shy away from it because I don't want to be that cliche writer. But there aren't many writers of my age group who weren't inspired by him in somewhat shape or form. He's a phenomenon, really, everything he's achieved. And, you know, when he was writing Pet Sematary and Christine, you know, I was in my teens, I was prime fodder for those books. And I ate them up. They were great. There was another guy in the UK, his name was James Herbert that I really enjoyed a lot. And before then,

in rolled out and I used to enjoy a lot of short story anthologies, ghost stories from around the world, that sort of thing. mean, just anything I really could get my hands on. I think the game changed for me a little bit. I read a book called The Cross Killer by an author named Marcel Montecino. That book came out, I want to say in 1989, 1990. And again, I was young.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (07:33.038)
was 18, 19 years old. And it blew me away because it was completely unafraid. It was completely unflinching. Nowadays, the book probably wouldn't get published in you know, in that they would have to change quite a lot in order to make it acceptable for today's audience. And I can totally see that. it, yeah, it told me, it taught me that, and I just started writing with an intent to get published, thinking, maybe I could do this for a living. I was in my late teens.

And it was a game changer because it taught me that you can break rules when you write. You don't have to be afraid. You can push the envelope. You can dare the audience to believe in extreme ways. And that was kind of a benchmark book for me because I sort of aspired after that to get just as crazy and just as outlandish with the character creation, some of the set pieces in my books.

and, and it still is to this day, when I think of books that really inspired me, the cross killer by Marcel Montecino is definitely up on the list. He followed that up with a book called big time. and then another book called sacred heart, I think. and then he disappeared, I think, I think because he died. well that'll do that. That'll do that. Yeah. But, yeah, if you like crime fiction and I assume that the.

dedicated listeners of the thriller zone. They do enjoy some crime fiction. yeah. You probably could only get on eBay now, but the Cross Killer by Marcel Montecino is it's fantastic. So I will investigate that. And I'm a big fan of eBay. So I like to I like to find those little lost treasures and pick them up. Now, the funny thing is there is in folks, in case you're wondering, The Bang Bang Sisters is not a Stephen King novel.

Now there, I think I can sense some influences. However, it is, dare I say, thoroughly unique. And that's one of the things I really liked about it. And again, I want to save all my accolades down the road here, but it's so fresh and original. But speaking of Stephen King, reflecting on your last book, which as we mentioned earlier, No Second Chances, it's a rip -roying Hollywood noire that smashes the pedal to the metal and keeps it there. Now that,

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (09:57.922)
The fact that you got that quote has got to just make you go, OK, mic drop, I'm done. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah, that was a moment. have to say. Yeah, I mean, it seemed that all of, you know, all my peers in the publishing industry were all getting Stephen King blurbs and I wasn't getting one. And so so when that came through, I felt great. This is now it's my turn. And I think it was great. It was a really good blurb, you know.

Yeah, sometimes I know King can can do these these endorsements like and and they're just one word outstanding or something like that. And, you know, if he did that for me where it was just one word, I'd be like, yeah, thanks, Steve. But he didn't do that. He gave me a full proper blurb. Read the damn book. He blurbed it. He loved it. And I was beside myself. Just fantastic. Read the damn book. A 15 word blurb.

You're off to the races. So yeah Here's another good one though Alex Segura friend a mutual friend of both of our says the bang bang sisters reads like a lost Tarantino classic with a verve and body count to prove it now that is And that's funny. I'm gonna I'm gonna borrow off of this for just a second if you would real When I was reading this I did feel like it was a little bit of you know, I felt influences of Kill Bill pulp fiction

not as much reservoir dogs but really kind of that kill bill pulp kill bill specifically because of you know you're gonna see a gal with numb nunchucks and a sword and you got a double barrel shotgun and a nine millimeter i mean yeah it's balls to the wall it's it's absolutely chaotic going back to what i was saying about the marcel montecino book you know just being unafraid and saying okay we're gonna

We're going to go all the way with this one. This is going to be a banger. So yeah, I, you know, know, kill bills are great. I mean, such a fantastic movie, but the scene in that where, Uma Thurman's character, she's in the restaurant and then all of these, crazy eights are all coming in as 50, 60 guys. And she just takes them all out. It's so crazy. It's so chaotic. And I lapped up every goddamn second of that. And I thought to myself, I want to do that. I want to do that in a book.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (12:23.062)
And I don't care who doesn't like it. I'm going to do it because I like it. And that's what I did with this. It's just chaotic, crazy, rules to the wolf fun. Well, Rio, I'm going to put a marker here on the show. And folks, I want you to remember this later when we get down to my closing question that I always do, is that you just said kind of that penultimate thing that you want to remember is that I want to write a book that I love.

that moves me, that entertains me, that gets my rocks off. And that's what I like about this. And the fact that you just said that gives me great confidence and lets me know that you're one of those guys. Because you know what? You're going to please yourself. And if everyone else likes it, great. And if not, too And your third quote, I got to finish this because Meg Gardner is a very dear friend of mine and a huge fan of yours. As she says, buckle up. This story rocks. The characters pop.

And the writing sizzles could be my favorite quote that smokes. Yeah. so overjoyed when I got that from Meg. Yeah. A friend of mine, Chris Golden, who's a fantastic writer in his own right, reached out to Meg and said, Hey, you got to read this book because I think you'll love it. And she did. And she gave me that fantastic quote and I emailed her straight away. And yeah, I was beside myself with gratitude. Just fantastic. I love that. And I love that about this community. You see that a lot.

writers helping out one another, it's a grind and we all understand it. And you've got to pass it on. to, you just got to help people out. And when it happens, you know, when, when I help other writers out, that makes me feel good. And I know it makes them feel good. And it goes the other way as well. You know, we don't like asking for blurbs. It's our least favorite part of the job. It is a reality. It is a part of the job because we have to do so much of the heavy lifting when it comes to our own publicity and our own marketing nowadays.

So, know, the other authors, we all understand this and we help each other out where we can. So Meg's just a shining example of someone who really looks out for their own. Yes. Huge high fives to Meg. Meg is a huge supporter of the community. I love her to death. She, and she's written a couple of good books. mean, Heat, Heat 2, you know, a whole three different series. I mean, she's, she knows what she's talking about.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (14:42.894)
But you know, I thought it would be nice if I gave you maybe my little, as though I was gonna give you a blurb and I'll even put it up on the screen so it looks all official and everything. And this is what I had to say. This book raises the roof, turning the knob to 11 as it's got all the action, revenge and ass kicking you look for in an action thriller. Boom, I like it. There it is. Talk about mic drop. That's how you do it, my friend. Not just a pretty face.

Yeah, go on. You know, but I think I think one of my biggest compliments though is that even though it plays like a similar band and other writers, this book is so thoroughly fresh from the absolute get go. And if you will, as you'll see, I got a couple of posts and notes, lines that just jumped out at me. Do you mind? Please do. The very first one, I'm only I'm only into the prologue and I go it was light enough to see, but shadowy enough.

to not be seen. I'm like, okay, now that's just some literary shit throwing at you right there in a good way. All right, but here's one of my favorites. I love this. And it's in the world of analogies. And Rio, you nailed this. It didn't matter how many times they had done this, talking about the girls doing their clandestine service after hours. That's all I'm gonna say.

Okay, yeah didn't matter how many times they'd done this how many drug dealers rapists and killers they'd taken out bria always felt a wave of nervous energy like being on stage They depended on talent and timing but an amp could blow at any time a snare head could break This was a live performance Yeah, you never know what's gonna happen when you're out there doing it live

And then this, just this is a little piece of poetry and with this I'll wrap on that. The rail yard woken a touch shy of 4 p An aggressive steaming sound. She opened her eyes. Her dreams whispered against her lashes as light as leaves then gone.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (16:51.854)
It's it's not all pop see there's some good stuff in there I mean come on now right you've got you've got ass kicking and then you've got poetry I mean it's just chock full All right, there you have it. Will wager that you were a more than Regular creative kid is that safe to say real? I mean you had some real creativity going on upstairs

yeah, yeah, God, without making it sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet. That's all I do. That's my life is creating everything. I write, that's my job. I play music, guitar behind it. Yeah, what is that? A six string guitar is in the background for those listening only. That's a beauty. Yeah, it's an acoustic Simon and Patrick. Nice little guitar. Playing a band.

I MC a lot around town. do a lot of public events. I'm sort of a hype guy for local bands and that's just going on stage and again making stuff up on the spot, which is kind of what I do for a job. But I do it with my mouth, with my fingers and my mind. And that gives me lot of pleasure. yeah, anything I can do. I draw a little bit. Yeah. And I was very much the black sheep of my family. I come from a family where there's no creativity, all very working class.

My dad was a construction worker, my mom, she went on to work in healthcare. But when I was a kid, she was just a stay at home mom. It was all very, very working class and not a lot of creativity. So I was definitely the black sheep of the family. Like I said, I was at home scribbling my stories out and even writing songs and things at a very young age. It was just something that always moved me. And I think now that I've sort of looked at it a little bit more introspectively as I've gotten older and I think...

you know, my childhood wasn't the greatest. And I think a lot of it was an effort to escape from some of that open doorways into different places in different worlds. you know, it's not to get too psychological about the whole thing, but writing, reading for me was always an escape. And writing has provided the same kind of escape. All right, let's take a short break. And when we come back, we're going to hear more about the Bang Bang Sisters by Rio Uers, our guest right here today on The Thriller Zone. Stay with us.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (19:21.154)
And now back to the show. If you listen to the show, you'll know what a fanatic I am of book covers. And I've got to say between Bang Bang Sisters, No Second Chances, Alola on Fire, those three right there, just take my breath away, they're so good. I'm looking at Halcyon, which looks like it's a slightly different thing. It looks like a mystery that takes place on an island late at night. Is that fair? But judging from the cover, yeah.

Yeah, it's about a cult, it's a re -realized version of the United States that people have established on this island in the middle of Lake Ontario, but it isn't what everybody thinks it is. It's very dark, very dark place. It's a cult, essentially. And I would call that a paranormal thriller. So it has supernatural elements to it, but it's still that sort of, you know, pulse pounding edge of the seat.

kind of thrill ride that I like to bring my readers. Here's another one. The Forgotten Girl. That is a dynamite cover. It's double on what I call kind of double entendre. And I'm guessing that's a straight ahead murder thriller of some sort, yes? There is murder in it for sure. Lots of murder. And there are definitely some thrills. Again, that's more supernatural. In fiction, I started out

My roots, I guess, are in horror fiction. A lot of the short stories I wrote in a couple of my early, very early, small press novels were horror novels. And this was me sort of segueing into the thriller market. I didn't make, it wasn't like a direct leap. I did it by degrees. And The Forgotten Girl and House Heel were my two sort of supernatural thrillers where I was hoping to close the gap between horror and thrillers, just playing both sides a little bit.

Sure. I love both of those books and Forgotten Girl particularly holds a dear place to me because that was my first novel with a major New York publisher, which was always the dream, always the ambition. Wow. And yet when I look at Westlake Soul, this looks like something that this is not a thriller. This looks like some kind of... Is it a feel -good? There's a puppy and a kid on a surfboard in the water at sunset. Yeah.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (21:48.246)
You've got to read that book. tell you, you'll never read anything like it. It doesn't really have a genre. I call it a metaphysical fantasy. It's about this kid, this surfer, his name is Westlake Sol, titular character, and he has a surfing accident and he goes into a permanent vegetative state. But what happens is he becomes a super genius. So he can't walk, he can't talk, he has no response to stimulus.

essentially in this vegetative state. But he can astral project, he can read minds, he can communicate with his dog. So the concept the hook is that he's, you know, people say we only use 10 % of our brains, this like an iceberg. So we use that 10%. The 10 % that we can use is for walking and talking and communicating. Well, Westlake solars flip the iceberg. So he's lost access to that 10%, but he has the other 90. Wow. That's the hook. it's you.

You I mean, I, you know, I love all of my books and very fond of them. you know, Lover on Fire and No Second Chances, there are the books kind of like it out there. High Altain Action, thrillers, character driven, just good fun. But there are not many books. Really not many, maybe not any books like Westlake Soul. It's kind of hard to find. But if you do find a copy again, if you're digging around on eBay, you should read it because it's it I've had so much more email about that book than any other book. And it's it's

It's very dear to me and I always urge people to read it. All right, well, not to be greedy, but is a copy on the wall behind you?

I have three of the limited edition copies left of that one. Would the, the artwork from Vincent's three of them. I'll see what I can do for you. Temple. If one floated my way, I would even read it and, and I would hold it with gloves on and then I would return it to you if that's necessary. We can still something out. Let's work it out. But let's go back to bang bang sisters because this is a

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (23:56.078)
Not to make the story about me, but this is about you. But I have a story and it's a story I wrote 15 years ago. And so when I picked up Bang Bang Sisters, I'm like, there's a tiny pieces that remind me of that. So that's why I got so excited about this book because it reignited something in my head. And I just want to say thank you for that. I want to riff on something here.

I'm a big fan and you don't get to see this all a lot these days. I mean, yeah, you saw it in Quentin's work, but having a brigade of ass kicking women taking matters into their own hands. And these are scumbags. So there's a little bit of that dexter while I'm only serial killing bad people. Tell me how that came about. I had the girls, I had the sisters in my head. First of all, I wanted to write the story. Like as you know, I,

musician as well. And I wanted to write a story about these, this traveling rock band, these three women. And, I just liked the idea of them being on the road and being out there and then the great crazy America and, and they get into some kind of trouble. didn't know what, but I had them in my head in my head and, they were too, they were too alive. They were too vibrant in my head. I knew I had to do something with them. And I thought, well, maybe they witnessed a murder or maybe one of them.

know, up going off with some guy and he's a bad guy. And then they get involved in all of that. Like my, my mind was going off in all these different places. But when I hit upon the idea of them to be vigilantes, and I just imagined their tour van, which is kind of half loaded with musical gear and half loaded with weaponry. thought that's it. That's the hook. And, then everything else fell into place. Yeah. You know, and it just,

all the pieces just lined up and I had a novel and I was like, this is it. I just love this idea. So yeah, but I also, like, know, like, you know, we talked about Quentin Tarantino earlier and Kill Bill just being a great example, I think of watching, you know, women on film just taking it to these, you know, guys, these bad men and turning the tables, which I love to see.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (26:14.842)
And I'm a big fan of that. I think as well, there's this, there are so many and they're all great male action figures, you know, from Jack Reacher, James Bond and Jack Ryan and all of these great characters. But there aren't enough great female action heroes in contemporary fiction. And I wanted to do something about that. I wanted to address that. And so my Bang Bang sisters, I'm little on fire to a certain degree. Well, no, definitely lower on fire.

Is my is my contribution to the to the thriller genre and I I bought the girls with me. Yeah You know, it's so funny. You you mentioned this a second ago when you when they go into the back of the van Yeah, it's chock full of equipment because they're a traveling rock band But then when I saw the gun in the gun case, it made me think of el mariachi. Remember this Yeah 1992 is robert rodriguez's breakout low low

Low budget independent film. I don't know how he snatched Antonio Banderas, but it basically skyrocketed his career. But a little bit of that influence, right? Absolutely. Yeah. No, I love that movie and Robert Rodriguez as well. That whole grindhouse thing, you know, big influence for the Bang Bang sisters. So and you know, I like it. That was inside me and my own personal feeling towards my approach for this book.

And now that the book's out there in the world and I hear a lot of people making those references and saying, it reminds me of Robert Rodriguez, reminds me of Tarantino, you know, to me, I feel job done, you know? Good, because I didn't want you to, I was wanting to be careful not to insult you by going, this feels derivative of, and yet those influences are strategically there and I love them. So I can't, I really can't see them being anything but a compliment.

It's a huge compliment. when you grow up and you're a fan of those types of movies, you can't help but to color your own creativity. So that's what's happened here. And the Bang Bang Sisters is, it definitely lends, it owes something to Robert Rodriguez's Desperado and Once Upon a Time in, what was it? What's that one with Johnny Depp in it? Once Upon a Time in, I can't remember. Forget it. That's okay.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (28:39.682)
but the, kill bill and pop fiction and those just fantastic. So the grindhouse movies, death proof of as well with the three girls and the stunt, one of them just stunt. Do you remember that one Kurt Russell when he's done driver and they end up. yeah. Well, first of all, I'm going to back up once upon a time in Mexico, was going to say America, but they knew it wasn't that it's Mexico. Yeah. was three. That was banderas, Selma Hayek, jump Johnny Depp, William Defoe, Danny Trejo, Mickey Rourke. I mean, it was chock full.

Yeah, but the one you're thinking about and I actually own them and it is, it's grind house, planet terror, grind house, death proof, death proof. That's the one that's the Tarantino one. So yeah, there's definitely flavors of that, but the bang bang sisters is still its own thing. You read out some passages there that it stakes its claim in that sort of sub genre, if you will.

And I'm just tremendously proud of it and that the feedback so far has all been really favorable. So, yeah, no, the fact that it has been compared to those those movies is to me a great compliment. Well, yeah, you have you've nailed it in a genre that we all love, but yet is very specific to your signature style. want to as we begin to wrap, there's a couple of business things that I'd love to throw at you. One of them.

is and I'm just curious because you were talking about one of your books being, let's see, it was the Forgotten Girl being that first one that really went to a big house. How many times did you reach out to agents before someone finally went, yeah, you're the guy? I mean, God, you know, in the eighties, it was when I started writing, I did everything on a typewriter and you have to put things in an envelope and send it off with a stamp.

and it might take months to get a response. I've lost count of how many stamps I've looked and envelopes I've sent out and addresses I've read. Hundreds, hundreds probably. then I had, I think I had two agents before, three agents actually, before I landed on the agent I have now, New York based guy, Howard Morheim, fantastic, fantastic agent. been in the business for 50 years. Really, really educated in the way of publishing.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (31:04.216)
which is exactly what you want. And I'm very proud to be on his stable of authors. But yeah, there were a lot of inquiries and knocking on doors and long before even emails came along. But see, isn't this a great testament to you for tenacity and as an encouragement to up and coming writers to go, if this is something you want to do and you love it, you have to just press forward.

until you can't press forward anymore. Wouldn't you agree with that? Absolutely. Yeah, that's all you can do. Some people get lucky, you know, they get their first or the second book picked up or their third. And, you know, I wasn't lucky. It took me 30 years of writing before I landed the deal with the New York publisher. The thing was, I got closer every time. Every book I wrote was better than the one before. And seemed to get a little bit further up the ladder. And that's not when you stop. That's when you keep going.

Right. And it is tenacity or maybe it's bloody mindedness, maybe even stupidity. don't know. It's a combination of all those things. But the other thing, the most important thing is, that writing it, it flows my boat. It's what I love to do. So why wouldn't I do it? You can get frustrated because you're not getting the responses you want or the responses you hoped for. But at the end of the day, what are you going to do? Stop writing, stop doing what you love. That was never an option.

Do you have any thoughts on the publishing world these days, since you've been at it for so long and you're now in among the higher echelons? Do you have any feelings about it? Do you have thoughts about the traditional or non -traditional self -publishing so forth? We've been talking about this on the show lately. Any thoughts in general about that? I guess so. There was a time I think when self -publishing used to be sort of a little bit taboo and

look down upon, I don't think that's the case anymore. I think a lot of people are finding it to be quite profitable. And they're getting great audiences and they're putting out the content they want to put out. At the end of the day, you know, as long as you're doing what you love to do, and in a way you love to do it, then who's anybody else to say you shouldn't do that? yeah, yeah. My my only, I guess, caveat to that is

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (33:23.47)
you when you publish something and whether you publish it digitally or you put out like a print on demand book, then it's done. It's out there. And if you're not 100 % happy with it, if that's not a book you can turn around and look at in 10 years time and go, I still love that book. Then maybe you shouldn't be out there. Because, you know, when I was 16, 17 years old writing books, I felt that they were the best books on the planet. And if digital publishing had been around at the time, damn right, I would have done it.

And then I would have been like 10 years later when I could see that they were actually all just big bags of shit. I would have looked at them and gone, my God, people are still reading this and they still have access to it. I would destroyed me. So that's my only thing. You've really got to be sure that the book you put out is the book you really want to put out because there's no going back once it's out in the world.

make sure it is not a big bag of shit. That's really kind of the bottom line takeaway. Exactly. And the thing is, here's the cold hard truth, is that a lot of first books, a lot of first efforts are not so great. Right. And that's just the way it goes. You know, it's a learning process. And so, you know, maybe don't publish your first book. Maybe maybe consider publishing your second or your third. Yeah. Do what you love and do what makes you happy. That's the that's the real bottom.

I got taken to school recently. Now I actually mentioned that you were coming up next week. You're going to be running a little bit later, but I was talking to Lee Goldberg, who's going to be on the show one week from today. And he basically told me with all, without any pulling any punches, David, go back to your self published books that you have up on Amazon, yank them out, turn the buttons off, put them in the drawer.

call it a day, they haven't done you any favors, they made you some beer money, they're not, they're not rating anywhere, you know, making you rich. They're probably not all that fantastic. Just get rid of them so that when you're really ready, cause here's, here's what it is real. And I'll, I'll finish with this. I told them that I was going to write

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (35:36.014)
nine books to work out my kinks and to get the rhythm going. And on number 10, I was going to go for the real thing. He's like, yeah, you should. Yeah, that sounds great in process on paper, maybe. But in reality, no. So just go flush those little bad boys. So I went crying in the corner, but I made it happen. All right. That is tough love. You know what? I'd rather have tough love than somebody blowing.

smoke up my skirt. right. One last question before I close and or two last questions. This is and you can't blame me for this, but please tell me that the Bang Bang Sisters is going to be a movie for crying out loud. Well, there's nothing set in stone yet, but there we are. There are. There are a few things moving. There are a few things happening. I can say that much and not not in the world of film, but in the world of TV.

Like TV series? Yeah, TV show, I can't say too much at the moment, but... You can't tell me networks or anything like that. No, no. It hasn't gone that far down. And I've been here before, where the carrot has been dangled and you tell everybody, my God, it's gonna be a movie and Brad Pitt's sparring and then everything crumbles. So I'm treading very carefully here because I'm aware that my heart could very well be broken into a thousand pieces again.

But I can say that there are people out there in Hollywood land who are working very hard to have it developed as a TV show. And people who are doing that are very well connected. All right. Well, I'm going to say this. Not that you need this from me, but I can guarantee you this is going to end up on a screen somewhere. It's got everything you want for that visual assault.

while still having a great storytelling. So it's not just, you know, John Wick killing hundreds of people, you know, single -handedly, but it's, it's a great story. So I want to wrap as that. Yeah, absolutely. A hundred percent. I want to wrap with the same question I always ask, and that is your best writing advice. You have now done enough work here with, three, six, three, six big novels.

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three graphic novels, short stories, short fiction, a plethora of short stories, by the way, if you go to his website, which we'll plug here in a second, you'll see that. So I know you have developed best writing advice for future writers. I mean, there are a few little things that I've definitely picked up over the years. I would say that you do your best work when you're away from technology. If you if you have.

you know, the time or whatever, you know, inclination to go out with a notepad and pen and sit down on a park bench or maybe go into a rest, not a restroom, I was gonna say restaurant, mean a coffee shop, something like that, and just write with, you know, pen and paper, you're cut away from the machines that I find that the purest work always comes out then.

And the other piece of advice I would say is when you do when you are on screen and you're going back and you're reading through your work, try changing up the font, try making it bigger using a completely different font because then you learn to read it with a different set of eyes and you'll see things that you never saw before. That's something that always works for me. You actually look at it with a different set of eyes because you're not used to reading it in the same way. Your eyes get used to that font.

When you change that, you read it in a different way. That is very clever and and a great piece of advice. It's interesting. I was the minute you said that I was I'm working on a book right now. And if I'm on if I'm working in a manuscript form at double space, 12 font New York Times, blah, blah. Yeah. Seeing it that way does not get me excited. So I put it into a little program I've got.

called Vellum, which automatically formats it to a book. So you can make it six by nine or whatever you want. And you can change the font willy nilly. That gets me excited because I can see it. So as I'm writing, it looks like a book that's or that already exists. And for some reason that that really goose is me. Yeah, I always do. I always do write magic flush when I write as well, because I don't know, it just looks nice, you know, and it's your thing, right? It's a visual connection.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (40:13.922)
And the first thing my editors do is turn that off. So when they send it back for me for the edits, it's all, you know, but I still do it. That's the hill I will die on. The right margin flush hill. I will die on that hill. A little tip for aspiring scribes. I like it. Very good. Well, folks, if you want to learn more, go to riouers .com. That's r -i -o -y -o -u -e -r -s .com.

Check out his all his books. Read about him. Read about the novels, graphic novels, short fiction. Of course, we've covered a lot of it here on the show, but you can drill down and of course order the books at RioYours .com. Dude, we had a couple of tech issues. Big deal. It happens. But thank you for your patience and thank you so much for carving out so much time with me. man. I you, was a blast. I had a great time. It was everything I wanted it to be. And alas, I got on the show. So thank you so much for having me. It was a real real treat.

Thank you.