Ryan C. Coleman’s Billy the Kid: Where Fact Meets Fiction

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (00:22.092)

Welcome to the Thriller Zone. I'm your host David Temple and on today's 201st episode, that's right, we have crossed the 200 mark. We're welcoming debut author Ryan C. Coleman and his book, Billy the Kid. You got it? Yeah, yeah. So we'll take it off. My wife wants me to take off my wedding ring. I think she wants the ladies out there to think I'm available. Got to sell books. Yeah.

Ryan Coleman is stepping up to the main stage. Put your hands together. Come on now.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (01:03.276)
It reminds me when my sister was in college, one of her friends auditioned to be the DJ at a strip club, Texas A and he didn't get the job because they're like, all right, vamp, you got to introduce one of the dancers. He goes, next up to the stage is good old Candy. And they're like, never call our strippers old. You don't get the job.

that is so good. Well, hey, welcome to the Thriller Zone, Ryan C. Coleman. Thank you, sir. Glad to be here. I appreciate you taking the time. Dude, I am so excited. Folks, just a little tiny bit of a backstory. Ryan and I have been playing phone tag for, I don't know, maybe a year or so with in between he and his boss, which we'll mention later in the show. And so this morning we're getting ourselves together and I'm like,

Finally get to see you face to face and this is very exciting very exciting for me as well And let's not forget the fact that we're here Billy the kid. Hi yippee-ki-yay mother freaking soup factory, mr. Falcon, mr. Falcon All right, I got so many things to say about this but I do want to before I do that I'm very proud to announce that Mr. Coleman and I want you to refer to him as mr. Coleman

Mr. Coleman is not only a debut author... Wait.

But he is this is his very first podcast indeed first ever podcast I had to go out and buy a microphone, which you helped me with. Thank you Man, it's just that little extra stuff that we do for you. It's the little things in life It's the little things as I say to my wife, honey, it's little things. She goes they're all little things You're so right But I thank you for choosing the Thriller Zone is being your number one departure

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (03:01.474)
Well, I thank you for having me as you know, long time fan. We've had a lot of friends appear on your podcast and always had a great experience. So thanks for having me. Yeah. Well, it is my honor. Well, we're going to get to Billy the kid, as I said in just a minute, but I want to talk to you about you. I know a couple of things and I'm just going to pinpoint and then I want you to fill in the blanks. I knew that you you're born in Chicago, you're you're group in Dallas.

And and you have spent a large chunk of your life in los angeles where you live now So tell me what your life was like growing up. So Excuse me. My whole family's from chicago aunts uncles grandparents mom dad sister And then when I was two months old we moved to dallas spent a couple years in dallas Small little side trip to johannesburg for a year and a half

during apartheid, it was an interesting time to be there. I was so small, I barely remember it, but different time and probably not the greatest time to be there. And after a year, my dad was like, told this company, like, I don't want to stay here anymore. Like, we got to get back. Back to Dallas and then spent the rest of my formative years in Dallas, went to school at the University of Texas in Austin, and then moved out to Los Angeles right after. So I've been in LA for longer than anywhere I've been anywhere else.

And are you a big fan of Los Angeles? I like Los Angeles a lot. There's a lot to love. And then your mind starts wandering like, well, do I want something quieter? Do I want more space? Do I want like a bigger backyard or some land? And then you think about all the things that come along with that as well. Cause like the restaurants here are fantastic. You can get in and out of here very easily. You've got everything you need is basically here. The weather's great. You can, I don't do these things.

but you can theoretically surf in the morning and snow ski in the afternoon. So not a lot of places you could do that. It's so funny. I did what I call three tours of duty there in Los Angeles in the early 90s and then again in the early aughts and then later. I always said to my friends, like, what you just said, but dude, you don't understand. I can surf like at sunbreak, dawn.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (05:22.83)
And then I can go skiing and they always would look at me and go, but dude, you can't surf and you suck at skiing. know, but I can do it. But just the idea of the possibility is enough. Yeah. Yeah. There is a, there is a love and a hate situation with LA. You know, people always bring up the traffic and the crowds, but you're right. Food, nightlife, top notch.

Exposure to culture and you know you hang out with all the movie stars sure something like that then I've worked on a few TV shows and You know, we have some movies in the pipeline at the company, but I'm not hobnobbing out there with Brad and George or anything well First name basis. I love that. So all right

NLA you your profession was and is no longer if if i'm correct was writing for television I wrote on a couple of television shows. My profession is sort of just storytelling so I will definitely go back to doing that at some point like oscillating between writing books and screenplays and television and short stories and

It's sort of wherever we can find a story is where we're going to go. I didn't mean we and like the royal, like myself talking in the third. I meant like we as like a company with the guy that I work for and with. Yeah. No, I'm saying that I, your majesty, Ryan C. Coleman, la de da de da. And what, kind of television were you writing for? So I wrote an episode of The Walking Dead in season three.

And then I thought that was going to be like the next like five or six years of my life. But then my boss at the time was very close with left and they, was sort of seen as his guy and I was also asked to leave then. And so, yeah, then, met back up with that guy, great, wonderful writer named Glenn Mazzara. we did a show called Damien, is a short lived show on A &E.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (07:42.018)
Basically, it was based on the Omen character of Damien now 30 years later and he's a war photographer and everything's starting to like coalesce and you know, he's got to like face his true destiny Went one season we had a good time and then after that I met up with Shane Salerno who was working with some authors that I really respected and loved like Don Winslow and Meg Gardner and Steve Hamilton and I've sort of just been working with Shane for the last six years or so

So you talk about hobnobbing with all these, you know, these actors and Hollywood and all that. I'm no, I'm rubbing elbows with the authors of the world. The storied elite. Yeah. Yeah. I am very honored to call Don Winslow a friend. What a wonderful, wonderful man. And what an absurdly talented writer. Yeah. You know what? You don't mind. Let's take 20 seconds. That is he is one of the kindest.

most generous men I have ever met. like fairly soft spoken, which you're not expecting when you read his stuff on the page. If you read the cartel trilogy, I call it the cartel trilogy, the border trilogy. And like, and then you meet Don, and you're like, he's like very like gentle and kind and sweet and nice. You're like, how does that man write that stuff? And yeah. And then you're hanging out with other cool cats like TJ Newman, who I got to interview.

More recently about worst-case scenario and she is there is no better description. We're coming back to you Ryan. I no, I love these are all friends of mine We can talk about my friends all you want. have never seen anybody blast on to the scene with such meteoric ferocity and then also also like when she came out went up to LA to do the interview at our studios in LA and she cake

Shows up big hug. We sit down. We talk like girlfriends. I mean like she's also incredibly sweet a lot of fun very outgoing Great great personality. She's a she's a great hang. She's a lot of fun to be around and then let's see who else let's let's brag a little bit more Meg Gardner one of my Dearest friends, I think i'd like to call her that anyway. She she may say differently behind my back. She's a wonder She I mean the heat too

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (10:03.614)
her and Michael Mann teaming up to do a prequel sequel to one of the greatest films of all time and delivering, like what an impossible task. What an impossible task. There's no way you're gonna do a prequel sequel to Heat and make it work. it's, woo. That's what everyone said, Ryan, and then they did it and then some. Yeah, and rumor is that Michael's trying to figure out a way to turn it into a movie.

folks between you and me as though Ryan weren't listening right now. If there's anybody who knows the inside scoop, it's probably him. So we'll, I'll keep working on them to see what I can learn. That's just between us. There's a reason Shane only tells me so much. Yeah. He's speaking of which Shane Salerno, probably one of the biggest King makers in Los Angeles. Now I've only met him on the phone, kind of like with you. So I can't say anything and I've tried to go knocking on his door. He's like,

He's working his tail off for his clients and then in addition to all the incredible screenwriting he's doing. he's maybe the single busiest person I've ever met in my entire life. Okay, well enough of the whole old home. Look, we could rattle off. Just start listing names. Scott Vandobia, Steve Hamilton, Eric Rickstad, Staten Bond, are you sure? Lou Bernie, mean, come on, forget about it.

I read a book of Lou's that I can't talk about, but I've read an advance copy of one of Lou's next books. One of the best things I've ever read. Now, that's all I can say. If you're a Lou Burnie fan, I think 2025 is going to be a good year. Folks, you see what he did there, don't you? You saw what he did. He knows that he has information that I want. He knows he's not going to give it to me. He's not even going to give me a crumb, are you, Ryan? I can't. OK, it's fair. I'm not going to be that guy. But you know you'll get an advance copy.

That's what I'm hoping for 2025. I want to know this. So you, you're, what was your degree in school? was communications, radio, television, film. My big plan was to be a screenwriter. So went to school for it and immediately after college, it's like, you, you go to New York, you go to LA, do you stay in Austin? You know, at the time, this is around 2002. You know, everybody's kneeling at the altar of

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (12:17.142)
link letter and robert rodriguez and you know, there's a lot of guys in my film classes that are like i'm not gonna sell out i'm not going to hollywood i'm not going to new york i'm gonna stay here i'm gonna make it in austin i've never heard another word from any of these people the only people that actually succeeded were the people that went to either new york or la i was gonna say i was a humongous link later and also rodriguez fan because i'm thinking of el mariachi right the one that put him on the map but i i remember that book i got his book

my God, I know it's here somewhere. I'm not going to distract from that, but there is a book he has that is like the Bible of independent. I'm looking over. yeah. This is, I know the book you're talking about. I remember the day when everyone said, you know, dude, everyone's leaving Los Angeles. You're going to Austin. I'm like, maybe. Okay. Maybe, probably could be possibly, but I will tell you that most of the real deals at that time anyway, was out Los Angeles.

I mean, the way it was explained to me by a professor was, all right, you can stick around Austin and do this if you want. There's two kingmakers in town. you get to either work for one of them or you got to become one of them. And they're making, at the time, 120 movies in LA. They're making 20 in New York, and they're making three in Austin. And now you got to compete with all these other people that don't want to leave this great city. And so I had to leave that great city. Yeah. Well, you're in a good place.

So when did you say, you know what, I'm gonna give novel writing a go. I'm gonna take my power of screenplay writing and take a detour down novel writing. Well, what happened is I started working with Shane and I just always wanted to do a story on Billy the Kid and I thought it'd make a great limited series. And then he goes, well, you know who is just the biggest Billy the Kid fan is Don Winslow.

And I guess, you know, Don's got a house in Southern California and he's got a place in Rhode Island. And I think a couple of times a year he makes that cross country drive with his wife. And oftentimes they stop at the Billy the Kid museum in New Mexico. he is just like, the man knows his stuff about Billy the Kid. So Don and I started talking about it and Shane was like, well, what if instead of doing a limited series, you wrote a novel and then that gives us options on what we can do after that. And I said,

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (14:36.142)
All right, I've never written a book before. And he's like, it'll be fine. First off, it's not fine. It's really, really hard to write a book. But once you get into the flow and you kind of understand the mechanics, and I like to outline. I've been doing research for 15 years. So. See, this is one of the things that I love about Shane. Shane's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, details. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just write the book. But I've never. Yeah, I Just.

Just fine. Just go write the book. It'll be fine. You got a couple weeks, right? Go write the book. Yeah. Yeah. You know, the very first thing that I came to mind was, you know, where did you decide and you kind of answered this, but when you said, okay, I want to write a novel, would it have been a Western necessarily? No, I'm not, you know, this guy who's just going to write 25 Western. I don't mean just it's incredibly complicated and difficult to do, but I've

No, I wasn't the guy like growing up when riding horses in Dallas and having the cowboy boots and my friends, know, my friends who did do that sort of stuff and ranched and hunted and stuff. They used to make fun of me because like I'm listening to Nirvana and Pearl Jam and you know, and I wasn't listening to Garth Brooks and Brooks and Dunn and George Strait. And so no, like a Western, me in a Western wouldn't necessarily seem like the first match. Right.

But there's just always been something about this story. was just ever since I read, I got interested after like watching the movie Young Guns. So I just picked up a couple of biographies over the years and there was always this story that just jumped out at me. It was this time when he was 14 and he gets arrested or 14 or 15, he gets arrested and he's freaking out because this older guy asked him to hold some blankets and some guns that this older guy, Sombrero Jack Schaeffer had stolen. He says, hey.

kid hold these for me. says, okay, immediately gets busted, taken to jail. He thinks, God, I'm going to prison. And so he gets left alone in the jail that night. Cause he's like a kid and the guy who's running the jail doesn't really, you know, think much. isn't a serious crime, but Billy's freaking out and, is going by Henry at the time, his real name and sneaks out of the chimney and escapes.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (17:00.31)
And what he would, what we would later come to find out, and this is true is they were just trying to teach him a lesson. They were just going to hold them overnight and then let him go. But he made this fateful decision that night to go on the run. And even after he goes on the run, they're kind of like, okay, well, like this kid ran like whatever. Yeah. He flees all the way. goes from New Mexico to Arizona, and then he gets into some trouble in Arizona. This guy's picking on him and then he actually kills somebody.

in Arizona and now you are a criminal. Yeah. It was all from this fateful decision when he was like a teenage kid of not realizing that they were just trying to scare him straight. First scared straight program, I guess. And yeah, and his life, you know, went down a different path. And that story just always stuck out at me. And so. Well, I want to back up a second and I'm going to cover a piece of land that we just covered. And that is because if you look on the back of the book, you get.

Two great quotes one is from don winslow who says ryan delivers a stunning epic first novel and then tj newman says part western part historical fiction And colman's craftsmanship makes a worthy addition of henry mccarty aka billy the kid what I find so interesting is as i'm reading and i'm like How and I kept saying to myself all right, make sure you ask ryan how much is his how much is truth? And how much is just fiction because there's

It's chock full of truth, but it's so intricately and masterfully woven that I can't tell the difference. would say it's probably, obviously, I have no idea what the dialogue was between these people. There's letters and somebody wrote a great book. They collected all the letters that Billy the Kid had ever written in his life. And, you know, it's a thick book. And so I could read through all these letters to get a sense of his tone and his voice.

So, but I don't actually know what the dialogue was between these characters. But as far as the events that take place, I would say 80 to 90 % true. Okay. And this is my point perfectly placed is that, you know, we, we know that you don't have transcriptions of conversations. That's where fun fiction takes place. However, the fact that you're, you've got so much substantial, reality in there makes it for such as.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (19:20.558)
fun read. you're captivated, you're pulled in and you're like, my God, this really happened. Well, it's interesting too, because what it actually frees you up in some ways, because you know, sort of these benchmarks you want to hit throughout the story. But then as you're going along, you're kind of thinking like, yeah, this is sort of emerging as a theme in the story. And this is sort of emerging as a theme. And you can go back and layer those into real life events. You know, you just drop a little bit of fiction into them.

And then you have like your sort of like thematic through line going on. Sure. Folks, thematic through line. Let's look that up real quick. I'm going to flash that up on the screen. So tell me what a thematic through line is. It's one of the themes of the story and it sort of has, it can operate in two ways. Like it's either got its own arc, right? It's got its own beginning. This is sort of the theme that the character thinks they want at the beginning. And then this is how it.

transpires over time and changes. Or it's just like a, maybe like an inner motivator for like, for, for Billy, right? It's this idea of family. mother dies and I'm not giving anything away. Well, he's also a real person. You can go to Wikipedia, but his mother dies and his father, his stepfathers doesn't have much use for him after that. And so he's essentially orphaned.

And he's got this little brother who lives in the same town. They're sent to live with different families while they're going to school. And the little brother sort of goes down a darker path. it's just this idea that Billy was always looking for family. He can't find it with his stepfather, so he moves on. Then he can't find it with Jesse Evans and the boys, the ruthless outlaws, and he moves on. And then he thinks he's got it with John Tunsel.

and then John Tunstall gets murdered and you're an 18 year old kid. You've got one sole driving purpose in life, which is like you want to find a family in a community that you belong to and somebody just took that away from you and you're an angry young man. What do you do? That's what happens. That's what happened in Lincoln County because we're all looking for that, that center and whatever that center is family, love, acceptance.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (21:37.3)
Sure. And without that, did. He wasn't grounded him, right? He sort of was just spiraling out into the ether. Sure. On a related note, I know that you're with Blackstone Publishing. I'm a huge Blackstone Publishing fan. Wonderful, wonderful people. Not only are they some of the best people, and this isn't just blowing smoke up skirts day. This is me having been at this for three years and having really built relationships with the different publishers, publicist, et cetera, et cetera.

And everything they touch is gold. So I have a purpose for bringing that up besides the fact that I love those guys. Usually, and I have many hardbacks that come from Blackstone. They always do something very unique. It's always top quality. The paper is always exceptional. The layout is superb. The cover art is always banging. Now,

Unless I'm mistaken, Mr. Coleman, that looks like a hardback over your shoulder. It is. So I'm just curious, maybe after the show you'd like to autograph one and send it to me, because A, I want to make sure that I can say I knew him when. Sure. And number two is I want to see what juiciness they put in there, because they did something clever with that hardback. I'll tell you one thing I just discovered like two days ago. I'll pull the jacket off.

Like that. Yeah. Describe it for those who are listening and not watching. Yes. So the inside cover, when you remove the jacket on the spine, it's red. And then in black lettering, says, Billy the Kid, Ryan C. Coleman. And a lot of places would just have a spine. They didn't have to do that. Here's another thing I wanted to say that I enjoyed about reading this book is that it was like I went back in time and to a simpler yet tougher time.

My wife Tammy and I will sit and we'll watch like we're big fans of all these Western shows and I mean even the Yellowstones the you know current adaptations, but we We often watch in Westerns and we go return to each other almost every single time. Can you imagine? Growing up in that time and you're just gunslinging and you're you're crossing terrain in a covered wagon The short answer is no I cannot imagine like I just it seems

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (24:01.452)
like an incredibly difficult life. Can you think of one of your favorite things? And I this is kind of obscure, but one of your favorite things that you discovered about Billy the kid that you maybe you either didn't know or that you go, wow, that's really cool about him. I was really interested by this idea of him running around with this gang of Jesse Evans and the boys, which is something that's not because there's

you know, you got to condense things for films. It's not something that's covered a lot in the, in the movies and just sort of the way that that experience shaped it. He didn't ride with them for that long. And then the part of the book that is true is that one of the guys in the gang, now don't know if it's the guy that I used in my book, but one of the guys in the gang thought that his girlfriend had the hots for Billy essentially. And that's how Billy ended up being like, I gotta get out of here. These guys are going to kill me. Cause to me, this is, it's part Western.

But it's really a story of organized crime. Sure. That's like an area that I've always been really interested in as well. But this is essentially organized crime with Irish instead of Italian. Right. Well, the center of power isn't the governor, but rather the Santa Fe Ring, a group of wealthy politicians, businessmen and landowners who exercise power through organized crime, theft, graft and murder. Their main source of income is a mercantile store in Lincoln.

known as the house. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a territory, right? It's not a state yet. And they've got this governor, this governor who had already was the governor of Utah and they got run out of Utah, but he was friends with the president and the president's like, fine, all right, go be the governor of New Mexico. And this guy is just inept and completely overmatched by bots, Katrone and Elkins and the other guys running the Santa Fe ring and

And so he's sort of just there. They kind of just can go to him and be like, all right, we need to do this. And the governor goes, okay, whatever you need. And then these guys are just stealing, you know, money left, right, up, down, center running everything. You know, I would be remiss if I did not ask this question, especially since we broke out the early part of the conversation, knowing who you work for. Do you see Billy the kid?

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (26:26.156)
going to the screen. I would hope so. I mean, that was the original intention. you know, fingers crossed. Yeah. If not now, then I could see down the road. Cause that is the ultimate dream. If you ask me, that's my ultimate dream. has to be one of your ultimate dreams being a screenplay writer now. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. And this is one that I wouldn't even feel the need to like adapt myself. All right. As we start to wrap, there's a couple of questions. You know, my standard close, which we'll get to in a second, but I want to ask.

I know you're already working on your next book, because if you're good writer, you're already working on it. Is it another Western? Is it a sequel? Or is it something completely different? It's probably not going to be a sequel. Now, I've left room for that. So basically, just real quick story about this. My original intention was to write the autobiography of Billy the Kid from the time he was 14 until he died at 21. I got to page 480 and realized that I was

Basically where this book ends so it's like I can't write a 900 page book About Billy the Kid Blackstone will kill me Shane will kill me Yeah, and nobody will read it and so there is a ton of material for a second book, but I've got an idea I'm working on something. That's a Another Western that was based on a screenplay. I wrote a long time ago that kind of takes place During the Great Chicago Fire

And then other than that, everything else is pretty contemporary. Okay. All right. Fair enough. There's three or four ideas that I'm kind of oscillating between and seeing which one I want to go with and talking to Shane and getting his opinion. Cause he, knows things like the market 10 times better than I do. Well, you are in the perfect place. you know, it's so, it's so funny. I was thinking about this when we first got on the call. I knew there was a reason I liked yet being from Chicago.

I did a radio show, I did two radio shows in Chicago and probably outside of San Diego, my favorite city in the country, Chicago, because it's got- the summer. In the summer and in the fall, but you can take the winter and shove it up your beaner. The people, the food, the sports, the attitude, the Midwest gumption and goodness.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (28:48.398)
So much. The people are incredible. you know, I'm a, my family's from the north side, so we're Cubs fans and like, there's nothing like sitting at Wrigley in the summertime. I mean, if you can get, you know, get out there in the bleachers with the, know. Dude, can I share with you one of my favorite stories of all time? My father was still alive. I'm living in up on Irving park. So there was, there was two towers right over center field that you see when you're seeing the scoreboard. I was on the 40th floor.

And I had tried to get my dad to come visit and he couldn't, but it's, it's, it's a major event. I don't know. I don't think it was a world series. It was a major event and a blimp is going by the window, shooting the field below. I'm on the phone with dad. He's watching. He loved the Cubs watching the game. And all I remember is going, this is like one of those perfect moments, but dad, you should be here. And he's like, I will son. And he, he passed shortly after, that was one of my

He was a big Cubs fan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I of course I was too and let me drop a name on you Do you know the name bussy the sports conditioning coach for the Cubs help them to the World Series? okay. No, Well, then that story and this story is gonna be nothing to me. It's my Wife's brother and he's your brother-in-law works for the Cubs did he was the Strength and conditioning coach for the Cubs. Was he there in 2016? Yeah. He's got a he's got a ring

He's got a ring and he's got the World Series tattoo on his bicep. That's awesome. Yeah. Just stunning moment in history. That's incredible. Yeah. All right. Well, now I know that this is your first book and your first podcast appearance. And again, I'm so glad you started with me. I appreciate that. I knew you'd be gentle with me. I told you to be. You're in good hands and I'm going to take care of you.

But, I, you know, I always close as you know this, best writing advice, and I know you're young in your career, but I know that especially the fact that you've been through the trenches in screenplay writing, which is no easy feat. I mean, the fact that you were able to do that, you're in a very small group of people. So I know you've developed some kind of innate best writing advice. So I'd love to hear that shared with my audience. I'm somebody that tends to think in plot and then

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (31:16.888)
character and how the character would react to that. I find the things I enjoy the most are books that are character driven. Yeah. And as long as you can just dial in and know that character inside and out backwards and forwards, I think you'll be able to tell an interesting story with them. Get to the core of the who the character is, what they want, what's stopping them from getting it. And from there it should unfold pretty naturally.

that's so good. What did they want and what is standing in their way from getting what they want? Yes, sir. Good stuff. Well, Ryan C. Coleman, this is usually where I say, folks, if you want to know more, go to RyanCColeman.com. I couldn't find your website. No, no. If you want to know more, you can go on Amazon, preorder the book. We'll go from there. You know, if enough people preorder the book, I can get a website going.

and then they can learn more about me. is that your plot? It's all the rules to get me to start a website. If you pre-order. Hang just one quick second. Yes. Can I say hello to the infamous Ryan? yeah. hey, yeah. Come here. Awesome.

my God, it's Ryan. Hi, how are you? It's so nice to see your face. It's nice to see your face too. Thank you. I've heard so much about you. And I about you. Mr. Temple, I have Mr. Shane Salerno on the phone for you. You have a compelling voice. Thanks. Well, not like David, but thanks. Well, you know. He's a pro. He's a pro.

Well, I'm so excited to hear the podcast and to hear even more about your book. And thank you so much. Thank you. So nice to see you. It's really nice to see you and put a face to the name and maybe some time we can actually make this whole thing happen in person. Yeah, that would be great. Well, full transparency, I did call David yesterday and ask if he wanted to do this one in person. And he said, no, no, no, no, no, never know. No.

The Thriller Zone with David Temple (33:29.486)
I don't remember it sounding that way, But yeah, though, I mean, you guys are so close. Yeah. I mean, it's such a easy zip up the freeway. It'd be great to come see you and just have a cup of coffee and chat. Yeah, I would love it. I would love it. Yeah. Next time you guys are in LA, let me know. Good. Good. All right. Well, I was waiting until I could hear hints of the end before I popped in. Well, I'm so glad you did. Thank you. It's nice to meet you, Ryan. You too. Take care. Bye. Bye.

Thank you for that. Now that's a first because she hardly ever breaks in the show, she said like, wait, wait, Ryan's going to be on? guys, never written a book before? on your show? Let me get on there. And folks, by the way, we did talk about getting together and I did want to do that, but I couldn't make the journey up today. We're in the process of moving, so I'm juggling a couple of different things. Totally get it. All right. First of all, great writing advice.

Really spectacular. Secondly, glad you got the microphone. Glad I could help walk you through that. you for that. Yep. Third, Billy the Kid is a great read. Folks, if you like westerns, that's part historical fiction, part true blue fiction. Part organized crime. Part organized crime, but still with heart and humor. Two things that I really love. And it's so funny if I can say this, I'm talking to Lee Goldberg, which his show dropped recently.

And he was talking, we were talking about how fun it is to have humor inside a story that Ethan, that is often racked with murder and mayhem. But we were like, but you know, you have to have a little humor because there's that gallows humor when, you know, cops go on the scene and everything is not all serious. So we're talking about how important it is to have humor. So, well, we wish you well. And I think, I think you're going to do just fine, Ryan. Thank you so much. And thank you for having me on and you know,

being my first podcast ever. Absolutely my honor and pleasure.