Serial Killer Conversations: 'Remote the Six' with Eric Rickstad
On today's 219th episode of The Thriller Zone with host Dave Temple, we dive into the world of thrillers with New York Times bestselling author Eric Rickstad.
This show is like a rollercoaster ride through the dark alleys of crime fiction, and Eric’s latest book, 'Remote the Six', isn't just another run-of-the-mill serial killer tale; it’s a captivating blend of FBI drama and the uncanny world of remote viewing, where the line between reality and the supernatural gets a little blurry.
As Eric explains, his protagonist, Lucas Stark, is thrust into a chilling manhunt that requires him to team up with an enigmatic remote viewer, Giles Garner, who’s been vetted by the FBI director himself. The stakes are high with families being killed across states, and the clock is ticking.
In a world where skepticism reigns supreme, Stark's reluctance to trust Garner adds layers of tension and intrigue. Eric shares his inspiration from real-life events, weaving personal anecdotes that give us a glimpse into his creative process.
Eric's knack for storytelling is evident, as he pulls us into the story, making us question everything—much like Stark does. This episode is a masterclass in how to craft suspense and keep readers on the edge of their seats, with Eric's insights on character development and pacing being particularly valuable for aspiring writers.
Whether you’re a fan of thrillers or just love a good story, there’s something for everyone in this engaging conversation.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- New York Times
- CIA
- Russia
- Tom Cruise
- Philip K. Dick
- The Story Factory
- FBI
Music: Chillax by Jay Someday is licensed under a Creative Commons License.
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/...
Support by RFM - NCM: https://bit.ly/2xGHypM
Mentioned in this episode:
Today's episode of The Thriller Zone with Dave Temple has been sponsored by The Story Factory, an entertainment company representing many of the biggest fiction and non-fiction authors in the world.
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THE STORY FACTORY
Today's episode of The Thriller Zone with Dave Temple is sponsored by The Story Factory, an entertainment company representing many of the biggest fiction and non-fiction authors in the world.
TheThrillerZone.com
00:00 - None
00:10 - None
00:15 - Introducing Eric Rickstad and His New Thriller
08:38 - The Evolution of a Writer's Journey
10:41 - The Enigmatic Pursuit: Remote Viewing and the Fugitive
23:15 - The Story of a Fugitive
29:08 - Writing Advice and Creative Process
Speaker A
Hello and welcome to the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A
I'm your host, David Temple.
Speaker A
And on today's 219th episode, I am pleased to welcome back for a return visit my friend, New York Times bestselling author Eric Rickstad.
Speaker A
Eric has written another hit thriller, this time involving a serial killer in remote the six.
Speaker A
Before we begin, three quick things to mention.
Speaker A
First, if you enjoy the podcast and would like to see more conversations with today's biggest and best thriller, mystery and suspense authors, be sure to subscribe.
Speaker A
Second, if you're new to our show, please do me a favor and drop an email to say hello.
Speaker A
The address is the thrillerzonemail.com and third, if you or someone you know has a book coming out this year and you'd like to appear on the show, Visit our website, thethrillerzone.com and be sure to hit the register button.
Speaker A
Now let's meet our good friend and return wordsmith, Eric Rickstad.
Speaker A
Welcome back to the Thriller Zone, Eric Rickstadt.
Speaker A
So good to see you.
Speaker B
So good to see you as well.
Speaker B
Thanks for having me.
Speaker A
All right, we're going to get to this beautiful book, Remote the six.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
And in just a second.
Speaker A
But I do want to do a little bit of catch up because I want to see what you've been up to since last we spoke.
Speaker A
It was.
Speaker A
Was it?
Speaker A
It hasn't been a year already, has it?
Speaker B
It has been, I think just about.
Speaker B
Just about Lilith.
Speaker B
A little over.
Speaker B
Lilith came out, I think March 11th last year or March 8th, something like that.
Speaker A
Wow, Eric, I have told so many people about that book.
Speaker B
Thank you.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
No, no B.S.
Speaker A
that book, I don't know what it was.
Speaker A
I think it was the right book at the right time with the right voice.
Speaker A
Besides your inimitable style.
Speaker A
That just blew me away.
Speaker A
And I got friends writing me back going, dude, you were right.
Speaker A
This book is amazing.
Speaker A
I'm like, yeah, thou shalt not lead thee in the wrong direction.
Speaker B
Right, Exactly.
Speaker A
But then you come up with this book and I'm like, I always wonder.
Speaker A
See, when I read a book, especially with an author who is thinking about, oh, I think I'm going to go off a little beaten path.
Speaker A
I'm going to do a little something different.
Speaker A
I always go, huh, this could go good or bad.
Speaker A
I mean, we all know that there's the blessings and a curse.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker A
But this one is a little bit off the beaten path.
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker A
Stunning.
Speaker A
But I want to come back to that because I want to find out what you've been doing.
Speaker A
What have you been working on?
Speaker A
So Lilith finished You probably already started Remote the six.
Speaker B
Yep.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
I was done Remote the Six by that time and worked on Remote the five, which is coming out in July.
Speaker B
So.
Speaker A
Wait, what?
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker B
And you know, I've been working on.
Speaker B
Working on some.
Speaker B
I'm always, Always writing.
Speaker B
So I've been working on some other.
Speaker B
Some other things.
Speaker B
Another novel, a crime saga, family crime saga, dark family crime saga that takes place in northern Idaho into Canada.
Speaker B
And that's about a brother who never wanted to be a part of his family to begin with in their violence and their crime, who is asked by the FBI to track his criminal brother across into Canada and kill him for them.
Speaker A
Oh.
Speaker B
And so even though, you know, you might not get along with your brother and be, you know, at odds, that's a big ask.
Speaker A
Yeah, that is.
Speaker B
It's about generational crime and not mafia, not mob, small crime and not necessarily rural.
Speaker B
Small.
Speaker B
Small town, but not necessarily.
Speaker B
It's more about this guy not wanting anything to do.
Speaker B
He's never wanted anything to do with.
Speaker B
Never wanted anything to do with his brother or his f.
Speaker B
And he just.
Speaker B
He can't.
Speaker B
He has to make a decision, you know, do.
Speaker B
Do I go after my brother or do I face a huge consequence for not tracking him down?
Speaker A
And is that consequence perhaps getting himself whacked?
Speaker B
Not whacked necessarily, but going to prison probably.
Speaker A
Oh, okay.
Speaker B
For a long time.
Speaker B
And jeopardizing his nephew, who is his older brother's criminal brother's son, that was abandoned by the crim brother, and he's raised him as his own son.
Speaker B
And that, that's really the big thing they hold over him.
Speaker A
You know, you said something a second ago that made me think.
Speaker A
And, and you're a great example of this.
Speaker A
You, you know, I, I talk to writers to go, you know, I'm working on one book a year.
Speaker A
It's going to take me like a year, year and a half.
Speaker A
And I'm like, wow, okay.
Speaker A
And for the most part, I get that unless it's a really dense cross international borders, multi story level, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A
But I listen to you and you're like, oh, yeah, I.
Speaker A
I've got the six.
Speaker A
I've written five.
Speaker A
It's coming out, you know, before I can hardly get finished talking about the six.
Speaker A
And then I'm doing this thing over here, and I'm doing that.
Speaker A
So you're the personification of a writer who actually.
Speaker A
Oh, man, hold on.
Speaker A
What's it called?
Speaker A
Oh, that actually writes like all the time.
Speaker A
So it begs the question, are you one of those Cats that are just always, oh, I got an idea.
Speaker A
I jot it in a note.
Speaker A
I make a date, a time, I make some notes about it, put it aside.
Speaker A
If it blossoms later, great.
Speaker A
If not, no biggie.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
And you know, it's, I think we're always.
Speaker B
I am certainly getting ideas all the time and some stick and some don't.
Speaker B
I'll write them down.
Speaker B
I find the best ones are ones probably I never had to write down to begin with, like Lilith.
Speaker B
It just kept that bothering me and bothering me and some other ones.
Speaker B
And most of them there's an image or something that angers me or I want to look into more or explore more.
Speaker B
And Ray Bradbury, I won't, it's a paraphrase, but he had a great, great quote along the lines of, you know, I, I hope, I hope I die before I run out of ideas because I'd rather not be alive if I've run out of ideas.
Speaker B
Not that he ever would have.
Speaker B
No, but it's a good problem to have.
Speaker B
And yeah, I just work on the one that's sort of compelling me the most at the time and sometimes I'll put something aside.
Speaker B
Lilith took 10 years and I wrote three books while I was working on Lilith and this book I was talking about, the crime saga called the pursuit, took me three, 45 years on and off.
Speaker B
Then I went back to it and back to it, but I was working on other more ones that were pressing me more at the time.
Speaker A
You probably told me the 10 year angle on this when we were talking about Lilith last spring, but I don't recall that.
Speaker A
10.
Speaker A
That's a pretty good amount of time to have something needling on the back of your brain.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
And to, to write it, keep it from, from doing that, you know, at least I'm, I'm getting some of it down and I'm working with it and trying to figure it out and creating it and you know, get a lot of things wrong along the way that don't work.
Speaker B
You know, writing it in third person, writing it in past tense, writing it from a male point of view, you know, until I finally arrive at, you know, the incarnation that works the best.
Speaker A
Have you ever started in one direction, like for instance, first person?
Speaker A
Nah, this has to be third.
Speaker A
And then change and maybe even be close to finish and then turn around and change it.
Speaker B
Yeah, I mean it was probably three, four years in the Lilith where it was a male point of view, it was third person, it was past tense.
Speaker B
And I was like this Just isn't.
Speaker B
It's just not working.
Speaker B
I don't know, you know, and one of it was that it was, you know, the male point of view, and it just wasn't working because it was just another guy, you know, acting horribly.
Speaker B
You know, there wasn't any emotional, you know, it was just straight out, just sort of revenge.
Speaker B
But what reason really does he have except being angry?
Speaker B
You know, whereas a mother, a school, you know, who's a teacher, who's, you know, single, who's got a son that's gone through it, made a lot more sense.
Speaker B
So happens a lot.
Speaker B
Happens a lot.
Speaker B
It's when I find the voice really more than anything, the language for that particular story, where it really clicks.
Speaker A
So I got a personal question I want to ask you.
Speaker A
Your agent is Shane Salerno.
Speaker A
The story Factory.
Speaker A
How far into the book and maybe into the book and maybe in variations of the book in that 10 year period, how far in.
Speaker A
At what point did you hand it to him and go, what do you think about this?
Speaker A
Or did you wait till the very end and go, oh, yeah, this baby's ready to rock and hand it to him?
Speaker B
Yeah, that's usually how I work when I'm done.
Speaker B
And I mean, I go over my work over and over and over and over and over again.
Speaker B
There'll be passages that have been written 20, 30 times, easy.
Speaker B
So I'll get to a point where it's like, I really feel like, okay, this represents as well as I can get it on my own.
Speaker B
This is where I think, okay, it's good.
Speaker B
So never have I ever really shown anything to anyone during the process.
Speaker A
I think that's wise.
Speaker B
Counsel changed so much.
Speaker B
Oh, wait, wait.
Speaker B
No, no, no.
Speaker B
Oh, I just hit send.
Speaker B
No, wait, yeah, yeah, we do it anyway, even when it's done because then there's, you know, input and there's editors and there's even my own brain where, you know, as soon as you hit send, you're like, you know, 20 things jump out.
Speaker B
Like, you know, I spelled the title wrong or something.
Speaker B
You know, I put two L's my own name wrong.
Speaker A
Yeah, I did.
Speaker A
Eric with a K.
Speaker A
God dang it.
Speaker B
That.
Speaker B
You think I know by now, do you?
Speaker A
So to finish.
Speaker A
To put the pen on that one, did you.
Speaker A
Do you recall how Shane reacted when you handed it to him when.
Speaker A
When he got done reading?
Speaker B
Remark was, this is.
Speaker B
This is a special book.
Speaker B
This is a really special book.
Speaker B
And it will not necessarily be an easy sell or it won't be an easy sell because it's a difficult subject, but that he loved it and, you know, he was going to go to bat for it.
Speaker B
And he has gone to bat for.
Speaker A
Feels like a movie.
Speaker A
I hope that in his trusted hands it will do just that.
Speaker B
It's a tough one, but if anyone can do it, Shane can.
Speaker A
Yeah, yeah, I would.
Speaker A
I would echo that.
Speaker A
All right, let's talk about remote the six.
Speaker A
First of all, for folks who don't know what remote the six means, how about you?
Speaker A
Let's start there and break down what is remote the six.
Speaker A
And then I'm gonna.
Speaker A
Then I got questions about the word remote and its premise.
Speaker B
Okay, so remote is.
Speaker B
This is a, you know, serial killer FBI manhunt book.
Speaker B
The agent, the protagonist, Lucas Stark, is been forced to work with someone who's supposedly a remote viewer who has worked for the CIA.
Speaker B
And it isn't just someone that wants to weasel their way into a case, that type of thing.
Speaker B
This is someone who's been appointed by the FBI director himself and vetted and said, you've got to work with this person.
Speaker B
We've had 18 months of people being killed and we're nowhere.
Speaker B
So remote is that remote viewing that the CIA actually worked with and so did Russia, you know, trying to figure out if it's true, if it can work where someone sees something somewhere else in lifetime, they can sense it, they can see it, they can sometimes hear it.
Speaker B
And this involves this enigmatic person who's partnered with this FBI agent, supposedly can do this.
Speaker B
And he was involved with a program through the government that was sort of trying to harness he and five others along the way, the six, in a way that, you know, focused solely on this disability.
Speaker B
They thought they had to hone it, to sharpen it, to figure out who.
Speaker B
Who of them might have, you know, some sort of other variation of it that they could use, you know, so th.
Speaker B
That's where remote comes from and the six comes from.
Speaker A
Now, when I was reading it, I wasn't even pages in, and I could not help but think of that Tom Cruise movie, Minority Report, with the characters, the precogs, the precognition, kind of.
Speaker A
They could see crime before it happened or as it was about to happen.
Speaker A
And it made me think of this.
Speaker A
So is that a similar.
Speaker A
And of course, that's clear.
Speaker A
That was clearly sci fi.
Speaker B
Right, right.
Speaker A
But this shares that, doesn't it?
Speaker B
That was, I think, Philip K.
Speaker B
Dick, wasn't it?
Speaker A
Yes.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
So this is someone's ability to see something as it's.
Speaker B
As it's happening.
Speaker B
And, you know, like this character says, you know, I'm not.
Speaker B
I'm not 4k HD or whatever the new thing is now.
Speaker B
You know, I have like an old cassette tape that, you know, or an old videotape that sometimes gets snarled in the machine.
Speaker B
And, you know, um, I can't just.
Speaker B
I'm not live streaming what I'm seeing.
Speaker B
I'm getting snippets.
Speaker B
I'm getting an idea type thing.
Speaker B
Um, so it's.
Speaker B
But it would have to.
Speaker B
It's.
Speaker B
And nothing to do with the past, really, or nothing to do with the future.
Speaker B
Just what he can see at that moment.
Speaker B
They're desperate to solve the case.
Speaker B
The director, there's.
Speaker B
And there's.
Speaker B
There's a lot of questions for the FBI agent and Giles Garner, who is the remote viewer.
Speaker B
They begin as they go along because Agent Stark is very much a skeptic.
Speaker B
And Garner starts to wonder, why am I working on this particular case?
Speaker B
You know, there's a lot of mystery behind it.
Speaker A
I never trusted the FBI head.
Speaker A
Something in my head.
Speaker A
I just never.
Speaker A
I'm like, this.
Speaker A
This guy's up to some no good.
Speaker A
I don't know what it is, but it just.
Speaker A
And maybe it's because I'm getting bent from so much television streaming where the unreliable narrator is the kind of the new central focus of stories.
Speaker A
So you're like, oh, well, whatever you think it is, I've even got my wife now, right?
Speaker A
Tammy's like, we'll be watching the show.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
You know that guy right there.
Speaker A
It has nothing to do with it.
Speaker A
Yeah, she's catching on quick.
Speaker A
But.
Speaker A
So this does actually exist.
Speaker A
It's almost like a medium, isn't it?
Speaker A
Shares, almost.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
It's that sort of feel.
Speaker B
And you know, going into it, I was thinking, if I'm going to have this, you know, most people, myself and the federal agent are skeptics, and he's especially so.
Speaker B
And he doesn't want anything to do.
Speaker B
This guy, he debunks profiling himself.
Speaker B
In the book, he wants nothing to do with profiling and sees this as just another.
Speaker B
Another Crane.
Speaker B
He doesn't care if the FBI director has appointed him.
Speaker B
Oh, if you're.
Speaker B
You're gonna have to prove it to me.
Speaker B
So throughout the book, I didn't want it to be just a given.
Speaker B
I didn't want it to be as.
Speaker B
Cause I'm not a master at it.
Speaker B
Like a king can just convince you in a page.
Speaker B
Yeah, they got this stuff, you know, they can remote view, they could start fires, they can shine, they have the Shining, you know, But I wanted it to be where in the suspense of the novel, you're not always sure if this guy, even when he seems to be convincing you and convincing the FBI agent that he's on the up and up, because how do you actually prove that you're seeing something in real time when no one else can?
Speaker B
Unless you happen to have like a video feed coming from the same place at the same time that he can't see?
Speaker A
Well, the way that his body was breaking down and he was just kind of in a state of meltdown.
Speaker A
So you were always wondering, is this some kind of psychosis and he's in the middle of a breakdown and once he actually sees something, he's just going to melt down in the corner, or does he actually have the talent?
Speaker A
We'll continue our chat with Eric Rickstad after this short break.
Speaker A
Stay with us.
Speaker A
Welcome back to the Thriller zone.
Speaker A
My favorite part of the whole story, and I came to this knowledge late, was that something happened in your early childhood that kind of fed this.
Speaker A
I want my listeners to hear this story because that's when I went, oh, Eric's been keeping something up his sleeve.
Speaker B
Well, it depends on which story you're talking about.
Speaker B
Is it my friend Phil who was a fugitive?
Speaker A
Yes.
Speaker A
Tell me that story, because this, this, this kind of fed this right from.
Speaker B
Yes, it did.
Speaker B
Well, there's a point in the book where the killer is getting across the country and killing families in multiple different states that are hundreds, you know, thousands of miles apart from each other.
Speaker B
But he's a fugitive and he has no ID necessarily.
Speaker B
He doesn't have a driver's license.
Speaker B
He doesn't have cash or a job.
Speaker B
So how is he getting from place to place?
Speaker B
When I was 17, I had a friend who was 21.
Speaker B
He had lived in Vermont up until a year and a half before then.
Speaker B
And he had been a friend of mine.
Speaker B
One day I came home from school, I think it was might have been a year out, a year out of school from my job.
Speaker B
And I was watching CNN and just the regular old headline news, you know, and this is cnn.
Speaker B
All of a sudden, it breaks into a live fugitive chase.
Speaker B
This is 1987, I think it was.
Speaker B
This is the first ever CNN or any network following a fugitive live on air.
Speaker B
And so I'm just watching it.
Speaker B
And this guy had just robbed a bank in Denver, Colorado, arms robbery.
Speaker B
He left.
Speaker B
He fled.
Speaker B
The helicopters following him, state troopers are following him in different cars.
Speaker B
It's going on for quite a while.
Speaker B
He takes tries to kidnap a mother and a young child.
Speaker B
And they escape.
Speaker B
He shoots at the helicopter with a handgun.
Speaker B
The helicopter pilot is a Vietnam helicopter pilot.
Speaker B
I mean, you can't really write it.
Speaker B
And I'm watching it, and no one's ever seen anything like this before, before a chase, let alone, you know, someone armed shooting at a news helicopter.
Speaker B
And then he kidnaps an elderly man, commandeers and has him commandeer the pickup truck.
Speaker B
Or he's driving the pickup truck, but he's got the guy at gunpoint in the passenger seat.
Speaker B
He hits and kills a state trooper on the highway going about 85, 90, right on live TV.
Speaker B
And I'm just like, oh, my God.
Speaker B
And finally this.
Speaker A
This.
Speaker B
The helicopter pilot has had enough, and he puts the helicopter down in a parking lot in like, a, you know, a supermarket parking lot.
Speaker B
The FBI, state troopers, local cops all converge on this truck.
Speaker B
They get the elderly man out, and they throw open the.
Speaker B
The door to the driver's side where this fugitive is, and they shoot him on live TV 7, 17 times.
Speaker B
And then they show his mug shot.
Speaker B
And it's my friend Phil.
Speaker B
And I was just.
Speaker B
I'm still just speechless.
Speaker B
I was like, what happened?
Speaker B
And he had been in prison for kidnapping a kid and holding him hostage for a ransom and put him in the back of a tool vault in the back of his truck.
Speaker B
Of course, the tool vault's meant to keep people out, so the hinges are in the inside, and the kid had a hammer in there or a screwdriver or something, and pop the hinges from the inside and escape.
Speaker B
So my friend had been doing 25 to life in a Texas prison, and he had escaped a Texas prison and was on the.
Speaker B
On the lam when he robbed the bank.
Speaker B
Well, I had seen him a year and a half.
Speaker B
Like a year and a half.
Speaker B
Like a six months after he left Vermont.
Speaker B
So like a year and a half earlier, I was at a gas station with my mom.
Speaker B
And at the time, you know, I'm.
Speaker B
I'm 16.
Speaker B
And Phil shows up, and he's 19.
Speaker B
And we're at this gas station.
Speaker B
He pulls up in a convertible green Corvette.
Speaker B
And he.
Speaker B
And he was the type of guy.
Speaker B
This is a charming, athletic, funny guy.
Speaker B
He could charm, you know, a baby to your grandmother without even a blink.
Speaker B
You know, he's just one of those guys.
Speaker B
He's one of those guys that he was literally, while he was pumping gas at the gas station, smoking a cigarette.
Speaker B
Of course I do that.
Speaker B
We blow the.
Speaker B
You know what I mean?
Speaker B
He was one of those guys that could ash you know, and, hey, Mrs.
Speaker B
Rick said, hey, Eric, how you guys doing?
Speaker B
Well, that car was stolen, and he was a fugitive at that time.
Speaker B
And what he had done, you know, having no job, having no cash, having no ID he could use because he'd be flagged.
Speaker B
He went from town to town by stealing a car.
Speaker B
Different car in a different state each time, so that it was harder to figure out, oh, the same guy who jumped off this car here, stole a car here.
Speaker B
And now he's, you know, especially in 1987.
Speaker B
And he would wait by ATMs at night in, like, places, college town type thing.
Speaker B
Places where young kids were out late at night drunk, oh, I gotta get some more cash.
Speaker B
And as soon as they got their 60, 80, 100 bucks, whatever it was, for the rest of the night, he'd stick a gun and, you know, when they were outside of the view of the camera, he'd wait, he'd follow them just a little bit and just take their money.
Speaker B
This is a guy who was.
Speaker B
No one could figure it out until we learned about what had happened to him before he moved to Vermont from D.C.
Speaker B
and then some of it made sense, which was, well, it's really awful.
Speaker B
I don't even want to say for personal reasons because I'm still friends with my sister's sister and stuff, but it was awful.
Speaker B
It would be where you could see, oh, this really would disrupt the arc of someone's life if he's not helped.
Speaker B
But it doesn't necessarily explain the violence and the desperation, but at least it gave, you know, some sort of indication where, oh, well, okay.
Speaker B
All was not well when they first moved to Vermont.
Speaker A
So how did you translate that, sitting there as a youngster, seeing this happen with a friend of yours.
Speaker A
That's gotta be starling all in on it.
Speaker B
This was a very close friend, you know.
Speaker A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A
That.
Speaker A
Those circumstances or those details or that atm, which is what.
Speaker A
One of your character in the.
Speaker A
What was he?
Speaker A
Q.
Speaker A
So Q used that same.
Speaker A
So I understand that that little.
Speaker A
This is one of the things.
Speaker A
Back to the thing we started the show about.
Speaker A
You're being a writer, you're taking those little tidbits, you put it in a notebook, you remember it, and you come back to it later.
Speaker A
Of course, we all do that.
Speaker A
My point is, then you take it to the next level.
Speaker A
You know, I want to go, how did you get from that to remote?
Speaker A
And the great thing about this story, and I want to make sure I don't give it away, is the way that you set up the story.
Speaker A
And you think these rash murders are one thing.
Speaker A
Oh, well, it's just a wacko doing a.
Speaker A
He's just, you know, killing people.
Speaker A
And I always kept going, why do people do that?
Speaker B
Right Then.
Speaker A
Then you peel the onion back a couple of layers, deeper, and the stink comes out, and you're like, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
So this killer in this.
Speaker B
In remote has got a lot of other deeper, more profoundly sort of disturbing reasons for doing what he does, at least in his.
Speaker B
His mind.
Speaker A
And here's the other thing.
Speaker A
As a kid, what did.
Speaker A
What is it that you joked about that your mom said had a.
Speaker A
Had a comeback for?
Speaker A
This is on the press release that I read somewhere.
Speaker B
I don't know.
Speaker B
I know she was.
Speaker B
She was a big Richard Widmark fan and she loved Kiss of Death, the movie.
Speaker B
I don't know if this is it.
Speaker B
I would give her trouble.
Speaker A
No, you didn't.
Speaker A
You joke that you killed a man.
Speaker B
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker A
And what did your mom say, son?
Speaker B
So I was joking at school before school started one morning, and with my normal friends.
Speaker B
Well, maybe not my normal, but a friend who knew that when I was telling something that seemed outrageous, I was just making up a story to pass.
Speaker A
Was Phil in that group, by the way?
Speaker B
No, he wasn't.
Speaker B
But.
Speaker B
So we were asking.
Speaker B
We were deer hunters.
Speaker B
And they said, oh, did anyone get anything?
Speaker B
Speaking.
Speaker B
I said, well, I shot a skier.
Speaker B
And they're, oh, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
You know.
Speaker B
And I joked around about it, and someone at the table next door, nearby in the cafeteria, who did not know me as well and know I was just passing times, had, you know, reported it, and I had.
Speaker B
The cops went to my mom's work, and they went to my sister's bank where she worked.
Speaker B
And, you know, it was cleared up eventually.
Speaker B
Now it would be CNN headline news, but.
Speaker B
And my mom said, look, you can't keep telling these stories.
Speaker B
People don't know you're joking.
Speaker B
They don't know.
Speaker B
I was like, well, what am I going to do?
Speaker B
I love telling.
Speaker B
She just said, write them down.
Speaker B
Write them down and call them fiction so people will know.
Speaker B
And so that's what I've done since I was, like, in ninth grade.
Speaker B
You know, you could get away with it if you write it down.
Speaker B
If you just blat it out and anyone hears it, you can get yourself in trouble.
Speaker B
It's like, okay, so it was good advice.
Speaker A
Little did mom know that she was spawning the New York Times number one bestseller Eric with books like this.
Speaker A
Good advice, though, wasn't it?
Speaker B
It was.
Speaker B
It was Very good advice.
Speaker A
You want to read a book that.
Speaker A
I think I read this.
Speaker A
I read it in two sittings.
Speaker A
I read it in about a half a day.
Speaker A
Once you start, you can't stop.
Speaker A
This.
Speaker A
It's.
Speaker A
This is one of those books that you literally.
Speaker A
Well, I'm just gonna.
Speaker A
One more chapter.
Speaker A
Just one more chapter.
Speaker A
Now, I'm not usually that guy.
Speaker A
I'm like, I can put down a book.
Speaker A
I got one more chapter because I got other shit to do.
Speaker A
But this one was like, okay, well, just one more or just one more.
Speaker A
So.
Speaker A
So six is here.
Speaker A
Five is coming out in April, May, June, July.
Speaker A
Four months.
Speaker B
Yep.
Speaker A
And I'm.
Speaker A
So five is backwards, I'm guessing.
Speaker A
So it's a prequel to this.
Speaker B
Well, it's one less than six.
Speaker B
So there's one.
Speaker B
There's.
Speaker B
There's one not.
Speaker B
But there's.
Speaker B
So there's one, perhaps one fewer viewers.
Speaker A
Right.
Speaker A
Well, we know that there are six viewers.
Speaker A
Indeed.
Speaker A
In all.
Speaker A
We know that one probably didn't make it.
Speaker A
I'm.
Speaker A
I'm just gonna guess.
Speaker A
Then you got the one that's in this story.
Speaker A
So then now.
Speaker A
Yeah, you've got another one.
Speaker A
So I'm.
Speaker A
I'm assuming, and I'm getting to a point here, I'm assuming that you're going to finish out all six.
Speaker B
That's my assumption, too.
Speaker A
Yeah.
Speaker A
Because when I was reading this and I think I shared this with my wife, I'm like.
Speaker A
Because we loved this television series called Manhunter.
Speaker A
Do you remember that one?
Speaker B
Is it Mindhunter or Manhunter?
Speaker A
Sorry, Mindhunter.
Speaker B
Yeah, I love that.
Speaker A
I'm still.
Speaker B
It's got canceled.
Speaker A
I could go on a tangent right now about things that get canceled, that have no reason being canceled, and then other movies that win Oscars that have no reason winning Oscars.
Speaker A
I'm not going to go down that road, but, boy, I could.
Speaker A
I could spin a yarn right now that would curl your screen.
Speaker B
Yeah.
Speaker B
Mind Hunter was a great show.
Speaker B
I love that show.
Speaker A
So good.
Speaker A
Oh, my God.
Speaker A
Anyway, so it made me think of that.
Speaker A
And when we done, Tammy and I looked at each other like, yeah, TV series.
Speaker A
So this has to be a TV series.
Speaker A
So would you get Shane?
Speaker A
I mean, Shane's got a lot on his plate.
Speaker A
I get it.
Speaker A
But come on now.
Speaker B
He's working.
Speaker B
He's working, believe me.
Speaker A
Hardest working man in Hollywood.
Speaker B
Yep.
Speaker A
Well, you're the second hardest working man in Hollywood.
Speaker A
If you got.
Speaker A
If you got two coming out inside of.
Speaker A
Inside of six months.
Speaker B
Yes.
Speaker A
Will that mean that maybe four would be in time for Christmas?
Speaker B
I don't know.
Speaker A
Okay.
Speaker B
I don't know, folks.
Speaker A
As you can see, he's not giving me anything.
Speaker A
Well, hey, listen, as we close, we always ask best writing advice.
Speaker A
I know you gave me one last time, but for those who missed our conversation about Lilith and I'll.
Speaker A
I'll include a link on the show Notes below that they can go back and view that.
Speaker A
Has your writing advice changed since then?
Speaker A
If so, share it.
Speaker A
If not, share it anyway.
Speaker B
If you're really compelled to write, you'll have that thing inside you where you have to write and to set up a structure where you're better off writing even 20 minutes a day every day than saying, I'll write four hours on Saturday.
Speaker B
Now, if Saturday at four hours is the only time you can do it, great.
Speaker B
But I sort of see it as you're working your mind, you're working your imagination.
Speaker B
The more frequently you do it, the more it taps into your subconscious and it just starts going.
Speaker B
So your subconscious is constantly working, but you got to sort of feed it by doing some conscious work so that when you're not writing.
Speaker B
I get a lot of my.
Speaker B
And this is for a lot of, a lot of writers.
Speaker B
You know, when I'm mowing the lawn or when I'm painting, you know, painting the wall behind me or whatever.
Speaker B
And it'll, it'll come, but.
Speaker B
But it wouldn't have come necessarily if I hadn't been writing consistently.
Speaker B
So I say write as frequently as you can for as long as you can.
Speaker B
And I used to write, I wrote the Silent Girls in the morning before I went to my day job for 8:00.
Speaker B
So I'd get up at 4 and I'd write from 4:30 to 7 and then get ready to go off to work.
Speaker B
And then I would write after my wife fell asleep and right from 10 to midnight.
Speaker B
So whatever you can.
Speaker B
It's consistently.
Speaker B
I think consistency is better than one big chunk.
Speaker B
It'd be like, I'm gonna.
Speaker B
I can only go to the gym once a week.
Speaker B
So I'm.
Speaker B
But I'm gonna go for six hours.
Speaker B
Well, you know, might not be the best way to go about it, but if it's the only way, that's fine.
Speaker A
But I was just getting her to use that analogy because, you know, a lot of people go, but I don't have an hour to work out at the gym.
Speaker A
Do you have 15 minutes?
Speaker A
Yeah, well, I got 15 minutes.
Speaker A
Well, then just go, spend 15 minutes.
Speaker A
Because what you're going to treat your.
Speaker A
What you're going to teach yourself is muscle memory, which is just a habit, which is basically discipline.
Speaker A
And then it will just stack upon itself.
Speaker B
Yeah, and that's the same as the same with writing.
Speaker B
It's like you discipline and muscle memory, mind memory.
Speaker B
You know, you're using that part of your brain that you know, you don't use in.
Speaker B
In any other way except in writing.
Speaker B
You know, it taps into things that you just.
Speaker B
You just can't tap into unless you're doing it.
Speaker A
I am going to add a note to that, and I've learned this over the decades.
Speaker A
I'm a big proponent of changing your environment.
Speaker A
Like, you might have a routine of your office, which is great.
Speaker A
I think that is great.
Speaker A
Got a routine.
Speaker A
Doors closed.
Speaker A
Tammy knows when that door's closed.
Speaker A
Don't come knocking because you're going to take me out of my rhythm.
Speaker A
But one thing I like to do is change up the scenery.
Speaker A
So we just a couple of weeks ago went up to Lake Tahoe.
Speaker A
And the nice thing about changing the scenery is not only are you getting a little break from your routine, but it opens your mind because you're probably going to be relaxing.
Speaker A
Maybe it opens your mind to just some possibilities.
Speaker A
And I'm walking along one day and I'm talking to someone who lives there, and they were talking about this particular casino.
Speaker A
Well, the casino used to be run by Frank Sinatra.
Speaker A
Well, that.
Speaker A
I'm like, oh, my goodness.
Speaker A
And that then I.
Speaker A
Then they told stories about, well, right over there, our friends Marilyn Monroe and he were hanging out one day, yelling at the top of their lungs.
Speaker A
And I just.
Speaker A
All of a sudden, I'm just sucked into that story.
Speaker A
Then I found this book sitting in the library of the house that we were visiting, and it's the History of Lake Tahoe.
Speaker A
So I looked up that story.
Speaker A
See, is that story really true?
Speaker A
It is true.
Speaker A
From the.
Speaker A
That local gazette.
Speaker A
Long story short, I went down this rabbit hole and by the end of the afternoon, I had beat out an entire story with like 10 points, new characters, all based on a few facts that I read.
Speaker A
And I walked away going, that was just a great exercise.
Speaker A
My point here is this.
Speaker A
Will I turn that into a story?
Speaker A
Maybe it's pretty darn good, but if not, it was a great afternoon spent in exercise and disciplining to keep those muscles working, to not be focusing on something maybe that you myopic about over here.
Speaker A
And it's just.
Speaker A
I think it's just a good way to exercise the muscle.
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B
No, that's great.
Speaker B
And I write in a Notebook, first draft.
Speaker B
I write everything with a pencil and a notebook, so which does allow me that freedom to write wherever.
Speaker B
So I'll write on a bench somewhere at the rec park while my kids are doing their thing or whatever and I'll write out along a stream or I'll write while I'm in the airport and I don't have to worry about the laptop and is it charged.
Speaker B
And I mean, I have boxes and boxes of all the drafts of all my novels and spiral notebooks and moleskins and every kind of notebook imaginable.
Speaker A
And will it be in consecutive order?
Speaker A
In other words, if you've got an idea, you'll just start writing.
Speaker A
You're not, you're not doing out beat points or outlines or so forth.
Speaker A
You're just kind of starting the story going, aren't you?
Speaker B
Yeah, yeah, I just sit down and start and.
Speaker B
But they're, you know, they're in all sorts of disarray and arrows drawn and, yeah, scratch.
Speaker B
But I find it very satisfying too to scratch something out, you know, hitting the delete key back, back, you know, so I.
Speaker B
So satisfying, you know, it's like not being able to hang up the phone, like literally hang up the phone on someone anymore where you just, you know, yeah, I win.
Speaker B
Or maybe not.
Speaker B
I lose.
Speaker B
I'm the loser because I'm hanging up.
Speaker B
But, but it's fun to scratch things out with a, with a pencil.
Speaker A
Sure.
Speaker A
Well, folks, once again the book is remote.
Speaker A
The six.
Speaker A
You want to learn more, go to ericrickstad.com of course, the link will be right here.
Speaker A
Eric, as always, a joy.
Speaker B
Thank you.
Speaker B
Thank you.
Speaker B
Appreciate it.
Speaker A
Okay, folks, that's a wrap for another week of the Thriller Zone.
Speaker A
But before I go, I've got an inside peek of next week's guest.
Speaker A
Nick Kolakowski has written another sizzler in where the Bones Lie.
Speaker A
Get ready for a fast paced, darkly funny thriller with a twist you won't see coming when Nick joins us next week.
Speaker A
This is your friend Dave Temple saying thanks for listening and I'll see you next week for another episode of the Thriller Zone, your number one podcast for stories that thrill the Thriller Zone.
