Unlocking the Mind of James Patterson: Secrets from a Thriller Master

Dave Temple
00:01:15

Welcome to the Thriller Zone podcast.

James Patterson
00:01:17

I'm always changing. I never know the ending. The ending is always in the outline, but that's never the. Almost never the ending in the book.

Dave Temple
00:01:24

See, this is funny because I always ask all the writers who come on.

James Patterson
00:01:27

The show, do you.

Dave Temple
00:01:28

Do you do an outline? Oh, I don't, because I like to be surprised. And then the others, if I don't, I don't know where I'm going. So you sound like an amalgamation of that.

James Patterson
00:01:36

No, I want to know where I'm going, but I'm not stuck on it. And it'd be because you'll be. You're writing something, all of a sudden you're really loving one of the characters you didn't think you.

Or one of the things I'll do when I do drafts, I'll do one whole polish and I just look at every chapter. It went this way. What if it went this way? And that's where a lot of surprises come from. Oh, yeah, you were expecting that, and I was, too.

But we're not going to do that because we're going to change it.

Dave Temple
00:02:00

Hello and welcome to season eight of your number one thriller fiction podcast, the Thriller Zone.

I'm your host, Dave Temple, and as you'll see, we've thrown on a fresh coat of paint, gotten a new headshot finally, and even brought in a band to create a new musical theme. All in all, a fairly, fairly handsome update to a show now in its third year and about to launch with episode 211.

Now, if you are around to catch our last episode, where my wife Tammy joined me for our annual year end extravaganza, then you probably heard how I shared, we've got a whale coming to the new year.

Furthermore, if you were listening to the episode just prior to that with my good friend Adam Hamdy, then you heard me tell a story about when I started the show. I had a dream list of three people that I'd love to have on the show, two of which were possible.

One was not because he had passed away several years ago. And the significance of those three dudes?

Well, the guy I most dreamed of being back in the day when he was developing Jurassic park was Michael Crichton. Why? Because I always felt he had it all. I mean, literally, he could write, produce, direct.

Plus, he was an executive producer on pretty much everything he touched creatively. And sadly, he was taken from us much too soon. Dude number two was Don Winslow.

Now, I'd followed Don and read so many of his books over the years, and thought what a dream it would be to to have him on the show one day.

So imagine my surprise when I learned he lived only about an hour away and often frequented Warwick's bookstores in La Jolla, the next town over for me. Fortunately, I feel confident in saying that Don and I have become good friends, something I hold very dear. That brings me to dude number three.

Now this guy was someone I discovered in the early 90s as I was flying back and forth from coast to coast la to my hometown back east as I would buy one of his books each trip and read them in one flight.

Now he's a guy who as I began to read him, seemed be kind of the perfect combination of a rapid fire storytelling, great dialogue, witty one liners and pages that flew by all chocked with mystery.

Years later would I end up reading nearly all of his books, watch many of his stories being turned into movies, and eventually, as you'll learn inside today's show, took one of his master classes in novel writing. That man is James Patterson or Jim to his friends.

Now, if you've been awake in the past two dozen years, you've no doubt read any one of his number one New York Times bestsellers.

Whether it was an Alex Cross book, many of which would have been turned into other media forms, his Women's Murder Club, his children's books that cover a wide spectrum of entertainment like Maximum Ride, or his newest trio of characters featuring Holmes, Margaret and Poe. During his latest thriller, Holmes is Missing, you must know there is something for everyone.

So folks kick back and enjoy a conversation that's being made possible thanks to an introduction of my good pal Adam Hamdy. And despite the technical difficulties we had here and there, this episode will certainly sit high atop my list of favorites.

As you may have heard Adam and I talking about, I came this close to his show being my final episode. However, as I got to thinking about it, I think, you know, I got a few left in me over the next few weeks. Heck, maybe the next few months. We'll see.

So please welcome one of my heroes and easily one of the most successful fiction writers of the 21st century, James Patterson, right here on the Thriller Zone. Hi.

James Patterson
00:05:20

Sorry. Oh, there he is. Perfect. I thought you'd rather interview Maggie than me. Anyway. Hi. Maggie knows all my secrets. My name, many of my.

Dave Temple
00:05:33

Hi, Jim. Dave Temple. Good to meet you.

James Patterson
00:05:35

Hi. It says Tammy.

Dave Temple
00:05:39

Tammy's my wife. She's got the Zoom account.

James Patterson
00:05:42

She's the boss. Don't worry.

Dave Temple
00:05:44

I think you know a little something about that, right I do. Well, it is so nice to have you on the Thriller Zone. This is an enormous honor.

James Patterson
00:05:54

Well, I'm honored, too. Let's have some fun with it.

Dave Temple
00:05:57

Okay, I'll do my best. Like I say, with very little time, I'll try to keep my fanboy to a minimum and my riveting content to a maximum.

James Patterson
00:06:09

Okay. All right. I'd rather you went the other way, but so that's fine.

Dave Temple
00:06:14

Well, it's so funny.

I was thinking before you got on the phone, I said, you know, I always vacillate between that line of be the transparent geek that you are or act as though you've been here before.

James Patterson
00:06:28

Oh, look at this. Yeah, yeah. Life is good.

Dave Temple
00:06:33

I can see you now.

James Patterson
00:06:34

Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:06:36

Well, our mutual friend and one of your co writers, Adam Hamdy, so I have him to thank for hooking us up.

James Patterson
00:06:44

Yeah, yeah. Adam's great.

Dave Temple
00:06:45

What a good dude. And he said, david, I was like, any. Any pointers? He goes, yeah, get Jim talking about golf and you're good to go. I'm like, oh, yeah.

James Patterson
00:06:57

No, not really. Yeah. But we can do. I will do one. One golf story. Weirdly, this makes no sense because I'm really not that good, but I had.

Do have nine holes in one about four years ago. My wife had four and I had three. She's very competitive. She's a big all American swimmer. And. And on February 6th of that year, I had another hollow.

Or I had a Holland one and she didn't like it and she said, I can live with it. Two days later I went out with her. I had another hole in one with her two days later and we're standing on a team. Does she give me a big hug? No.

Does she say, nice shot, honey? No. She looks at me and very appropriately says, you've got to be shitting me, which is absolutely appropriate comment.

Dave Temple
00:07:51

So you do realize the chance of that actually happening is to have as many hole in ones.

James Patterson
00:08:00

Yeah. I don't know what the odds are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or. Or to do two in three days.

Dave Temple
00:08:04

Yeah, Yeah.

James Patterson
00:08:05

I don't know what it is. Yeah. And I'm not. I'm not. I'm. Okay, but I'm. I'm not. I'm not good. I. I get less good every day at the way it's pointing out.

Dave Temple
00:08:13

Well, this is not what I. I've got a confession.

James Patterson
00:08:16

We have other things. We have Thriller things to talk about. All right. Whatever you want to talk about.

Dave Temple
00:08:19

Yeah. Well, first of all, we're. We're certainly going to get to Holmes is missing, which is a riveting read. We're going to get to that.

But Jim, I got to tell you something. Two years ago, right around Covid time, I guess it was, ish, I picked up a book called James Patterson by James Patterson, being the fan that I am.

And as you can see, I did a little homework and I confess that.

James Patterson
00:08:45

Little pieces of paper in there to fake it. No interviewers do that. I've seen that trick so many times before.

Dave Temple
00:08:53

No, no, because let me tell you something.

I have handwritten notes in here because there are little things that you either you either encouraged me or you instilled something in me or you touched my heart or something. But the. My point is I picked this up two years ago. I'm embarrassed to say I started it and never finished it. So I finished it last night.

And it is easily one of the best autobiographies I've ever read. And I'm not just saying that. It's just so stinking.

James Patterson
00:09:20

Good thinking. Good. I like it.

Dave Temple
00:09:23

Yeah. I am going to circle back to it because I do have a closing comment to make about it.

But I mean, there's just so many, so many things and, and so many things that I share with you that I want to get to. But I do want to start off.

James Patterson
00:09:38

By saying, listen, I'm challenged to do it. I actually did it during COVID We sort of stuck here and we didn't go out and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just started writing down stories and.

And I was liking it. I was enjoying it and I thought the stories were pretty good. And it is.

It is not the typical autobiography because it is just story after story after story.

Dave Temple
00:10:02

Well, and what I liked about it most was the fact that it's. This is a Captain Obvious statement, but it's in your voice. So it's very short, pithy, humorous, and it.

So many poignant little points and the brushes of fame that you've had.

James Patterson
00:10:17

Humorous thing. Is an interesting thing, even in terms of like I do a series with Mike lupica, Jane Smith, 12 months to live and Then Hard to Kill.

And it depends on what country in terms, what the titles are. And I love it. And. But I know that some people, some readers, I think it's really good. I think she's the best character, maybe better than Al.

I don't know, whatever. Alex Cross. But. But some readers don't get it because they don't get the irony. They, they just, they're very literal.

And you go, man, I don't Know, man, she's really funny. She's funny. And, you know, and I think some people, they. When I was growing up in. In a town that I was in, I.

I found that especially with my relatives, I would say stuff that I thought was kind of funny, and they would say, seriously? I go, like, no, not seriously. No, it's kind of meant to be a little bit of a joke. And then finally, after a while, I just stopped trying to be funny.

I just said, okay, well, they're not getting it, and they're very literal in this town, and that's the deal. And. Or at school, you get the kids and they go, you trying to be funny?

You know, no, no, I'm not trying to be funny, and I don't want to fight you, so, you know, I'll back off.

Dave Temple
00:11:33

How much of that. I mean, you grew up in a strict Christian, or rather Catholic. I grew up strict Christian. You grew up strict Catholic.

And that has a way of really defining, refining, and turning you, doesn't it?

James Patterson
00:11:48

I not strict. And there was a lot of it, but it wasn't strict. Yeah, my mother taught in the Catholic school, but she wasn't strict about the.

The Catholic side of it. I went to Catholic all the way through college. Even the college was a Catholic college. And, And. And just boys.

So, yeah, all that would have an effect, I think. You know, mostly it was. It was. It was good in terms of discipline, become very disciplined, but it wasn't, you know, otherwise, other than.

Than the discipline. I don't think it hurt too much.

Dave Temple
00:12:21

Yeah, well, it certainly helps form who we are. Good, better and different, I suppose.

James Patterson
00:12:26

Yeah. I mean, my thing about anybody that goes into therapy, start immediately with talking about your mother and your father. Don't let the shrink.

Will, Will. Will want to go like six months before that. You get into that note the first day, start talking about your mom and your dad.

Not to blame them, but whatever it is, they. They got the ball rolling there in that direction, you know?

Dave Temple
00:12:49

Yeah, yeah. I would say between having a father for a preacher and the discipline. Yeah, that. That tells you a lot, that, doesn't it, Jim?

James Patterson
00:12:59

What part of the country?

Dave Temple
00:13:01

North Carolina.

James Patterson
00:13:02

Oh, okay. All right. I was just in North Carolina. Have you heard of Mr. Beast?

Dave Temple
00:13:07

Oh, yeah, sure.

James Patterson
00:13:08

He said, because, well, I. I just spent three hours with Mr. Beast on Saturday. I don't know, maybe we'll do something together. We'll say, we'll see what happens.

He just bought a hundred thousand acres in. In North Carolina. He. He builds these sound stages and they're as big as football stadiums.

It's, it's just, I mean, he's 27 years old, he's stunningly smart and, and just such an entrepreneur. It's just unbelievable what he does.

Dave Temple
00:13:37

And what are you thinking about doing with him?

James Patterson
00:13:39

I don't know. We'll see. We talked about a couple different things. We'll see. I'm always, I always like to listen, meet people.

Creative artists, the agency, they bring me somebody to collaborate with about every week and, and mostly, you know, I don't know where this came from, but it's a quote that's been driving me for a couple of years now. It's not, it's not, I didn't write this, but, but I love it and I think it's actually more valuable for 20 year olds than it is for me.

But the quote is, my time here is short. What can I do most beautifully? And I just think that's such a motivator and a focus thing and, and, and kind of anything that comes my way.

Like, like a Mr. Beast. And, you know, interesting. I, I, you know, I don't know if we'll do anything or not, but it's interesting, it's interesting the way he thinks.

It's, it, he has every one of his, for people don't know him, every one of his videos has a bigger audience in the super bowl, which is insane, isn't it? It is, it's, it's just, it's astonishing. I mean, the audience that he has is just, it's amazing.

Dave Temple
00:14:46

Well, you know, I was reading about, of course, I know a lot about your collaborations with various authors. And then the ones with the.

James Patterson
00:14:53

Tell me.

Dave Temple
00:14:53

Yeah, well, but between them, yeah, between them, President Clinton. But you know, my favorite story, and I think it was probably highlighted in this book, is the one with Dolly Parton.

That one was particularly special for some reason.

James Patterson
00:15:11

Well, Dolly and I have become really good friends. Spent a lot of time with her.

Her husband has dementia and, you know, that, that weighs heavily on her and we just got to be, you know, tremendous buddies. And, and during the first year, she called me on my birthday. The story's in the book. And she sang Happy Birthday to me over the phone.

And what I wanted to do was say, dolly, I'm gonna hang up now. I want you to call again and it's gonna go to voicemail. And then I want you to sing it again on voicemail.

So I have it, you know, and I, I didn't have the nerve to do it, so I, I didn't do it. But. And then we were. We toured a little bit and we were out in Austin, Texas, and it was. It was about 7,000 people. And she said, well, James Burke.

Jimmy James called me. Jimmy James. Jimmy James's birthday is coming up, so. So we have a division. We sing Happy Birthday. So let's all sing Happy Birthday to. To him.

You know, so six, seven thousand people say Happy Birthday to me. So. But it was. And continues to be. I have my own little podcast on Substack and. And interviewed her a couple weeks ago, which is great.

Dave Temple
00:16:25

Yeah.

James Patterson
00:16:27

Than this thing because she's a better person to interview than I am. So you.

Dave Temple
00:16:33

I love the. I. I just recently started following you on Substack and I love that new platform because it feels like you have more autonomy, more control, more.

More power.

James Patterson
00:16:44

Whatever you want. Yeah. They don't. They don't way.

Dave Temple
00:16:47

You don't have the algorithms beating you over the head. You don't have people, I need to take your stuff away.

James Patterson
00:16:53

No, no. They just say, go do it. Which is, which is good. It's fun. Yeah. What I like the most about it is just. Is just the, the interviews I just did.

I don't know. It's just running now. Stevie Van Sant.

Dave Temple
00:17:07

Yes.

James Patterson
00:17:07

He was, you know, the guitar or whatever for Springsteen, E Street Band. And then. And then he was in the Sopranos for several years. It's really, really fun. Really fun interview. I enjoyed that a lot.

Dave Temple
00:17:20

He ended up being a fantastic actor, didn't he?

James Patterson
00:17:24

Yeah. Well, we talked about it and, and he said, you know, he did it on a lark. And.

And he said, well, if it didn't work out, you know, they'll kill me in episode two, you know, but they, they liked them. And he was good. Yeah. And then he did that series. I forget what it was called about the. The mafia guy that goes to.

To Norway to sort of, uh, kind of witness protection, which I forget what was called. Let me Ham Lillehammer. That was fun too. But he's a neat guy. I enjoyed it a lot. And I think Car Bill, that was a fun one.

Dave Temple
00:17:58

Yeah. Boy, he's just wound out, isn't he?

James Patterson
00:18:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he is. It was good. It was. It was a nice. But I really like him. They like 20 minutes, so we. We get in and out and you.

Dave Temple
00:18:09

Know that we're super tight on time, so I want to make sure there's a couple of things that. Okay.

James Patterson
00:18:18

What.

Dave Temple
00:18:19

You know, one thing that surprised me about you as I was reading is that you.

James Patterson
00:18:24

Because you thought I was just prolific. You didn't know that I was profound. Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:18:29

I have learned not to use the word prolific, by the way.

James Patterson
00:18:32

Yeah, you can if you want.

Dave Temple
00:18:33

I know you hate that one, but it's. It's not only, you know, it's the fact that you didn't start out like.

I hear so many authors on this show say, oh, I wanted to write since I was, like, two years old. Since I was four years old. But that wasn't your story, was it?

James Patterson
00:18:49

No, I wanted to write when I was 4 because I didn't know how to write. But, no, I didn't. And I. I. Part of that was, once again, Catholic high schools or whatever, and they just gave us. That must be Clinton.

They gave us just a lot of books that we didn't really want to read. It turned us off.

And my thing about even, you know, now with education boards of education, if your objective is to get kids reading, do not give them books that turn them off. That's counterproductive, you know.

So I got turned off to reading, and then I got a job working at a mental hospital, worked my way through college, and I worked a lot of night shifts. I started reading like crazy, but it was all stuff that I wanted to read, and I was a little literary snob, so it was. It was more serious fiction.

You know, Mr. Bridge and Mrs. Bridge were two of my favorites. And then Jersey Kaczynski, nobody reads anymore. Steps in some of the Painted Bird. That.

That stuff really turned me on. And they were short stuff, which got me into the short chapters.

Dave Temple
00:19:49

One of my favorite things, reading was when you were studying, when you were doing this reading at the mental ward. And I kept trying to picture little Jimmy in.

In a scene from, like, One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, you know, sitting in the corner reading his books.

James Patterson
00:20:03

Yeah. And. Well, the night shifts, it mostly. Not every night, but a lot of nights it was fairly quiet. And.

And one of the things here, they were always not most of the wards, there were usually a couple of people that were suicidal and. Or on specials. Specials meaning that they would have one person who had it sit relatively close to them, but they'd sleep for the most part.

And you just sit there reading and drinking coffee and, you know, and that. And that was. That's what really turned me on to reading books.

And then I started scribbling, and somebody said, you're lucky if you find something you like to do. And then it's a miracle of somebody you pay to do it, will pay you to do it. And that took a while, I mean, to really get paid. The first book I wrote.

Which one? And Edgar, but I made like $6,000 or something, so even then that wasn't going to pay the rent.

Dave Temple
00:20:53

So how long was the jump between Thomas Berryman and Long Came a Spider?

James Patterson
00:21:01

I would. I don't remember exactly. I'm gonna get. I don't know. I'm gonna say 20 years.

Dave Temple
00:21:05

Okay.

James Patterson
00:21:06

But.

Dave Temple
00:21:06

But Spider was that real. First big commercial smash, was it?

James Patterson
00:21:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because nothing I had done before that. I mean, everything was enough to get me, keep me, getting me published, but that was about it. Yeah, that was.

Dave Temple
00:21:21

I remember this because it was 92. I just moved from Chicago to LA, and I'm. I'm doing flights back and forth to North Carolina to see family and. And I. And along Came a Spider.

And I read it in one reading across the country, and I'm like, oh, my God, this guy's got it. To be able to write succinct, catchy chapters. And that's when I got addicted to you. And I read the entire series and I thought that if that.

And, And I don't know how many people say this to you, so just forgive me if I sound like a cornball, but you really are the guy who, who ignited this fire in me to not only kind of start reading again because the books were just so long winded and, you know, repetitious and derivative. Number one.

James Patterson
00:22:06

Long winded and whatever.

Dave Temple
00:22:09

Yeah, yeah.

James Patterson
00:22:10

And then the number again. Now, the long winded stuff. And it's. It's not good. It's not good for getting. People wonder why book sales are down or whatever.

And a part of it is there's so many books are put out there that, you know, nothing against Oprah, but it's interesting with her, the writers that she picked, almost invariably, they would read that one book, but then not read the next book of that from that person. That's not good. That. That suggests that, you know, it's, It's. There's. It's sort of questionable. What. You're. Obviously, people were loyal to her, but.

And even with some of these book clubs now, you read them, you go like, really? This is it? You know, and it turns people on rather than turns them on, which I don't think is great, but so be it.

Dave Temple
00:22:56

And I want to drill down on this for a second, Jim, if you're cool with it, because here's the. You know, there's a lot of people that go, oh, Jim's not a writer. He's too commercial.

James Patterson
00:23:03

Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:23:04

He's just popcorn. But I'm like, there are dozens.

James Patterson
00:23:08

What the hell? That means you read some of this stuff, and it's supposed to be profound. And you. You go, like, all right, let me just.

And sometimes the language is quite good or interesting, and you go, but what did they just say? And you go, that really isn't that profound. I don't know why people are. And I think a little piece of it is. And this relates also to how I'm seen.

And that depends on the country. Like, in England, they're. They're just kind of thriller and mystery fans, and they're not ashamed of it. It's like, yeah, this. Their books are.

And some of them are really good. And. And you don't have people where they feel they have to apologize.

I don't like that whole thing of, like, nobody should ever feel guilty about reading a book. That's just ridiculous.

Dave Temple
00:23:52

Yeah.

James Patterson
00:23:53

A lot of things you feel guilty about, that's not one of them.

Dave Temple
00:23:57

I'm going to go ahead and finish this thought with a slight slam. And it's because of this. So many books come across my desk, and they. And the. In the writing is so.

Geez, I don't know what the word is, but it goes on and on and on. I'm like, I got it about the third sentence.

So the fact that you're using all this great for floral and poetic stuff, and I'm not taking anything away from some of the great writers, but I'm.

James Patterson
00:24:22

Like, yeah, some of it, you know, like James Lee Burke, who he was flowering with. Everybody's gray.

Dave Temple
00:24:28

Right.

James Patterson
00:24:29

You know, so. Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:24:31

But there's a point of where maybe it's my. Maybe it's the old gray matter is just crumbling or it's short attention span, but I'm like, I want to get in and get out.

Kind of like a good movie or a good TV series.

James Patterson
00:24:43

Yeah. Or you. You've read it before. I can't tell you how many times I picked up books and put them down, because the first scene.

Woman running through the woods, being chased.

Dave Temple
00:24:53

Right.

James Patterson
00:24:53

I don't. Yes. I don't care about her. I mean, I might care about her if I knew more about her, but I don't.

Woman gets caught and either, you know, gets knocked out or die, whatever the hell it is. And I don't want to read the book.

Dave Temple
00:25:08

Yeah.

James Patterson
00:25:09

I hope I haven't written that scene. I probably have somewhere along the way.

Dave Temple
00:25:12

All right, I got to back up a second. So I was Talking about how I got turned on to your books and so forth. The second point was you.

When these cats out of, I want to say, New York started this thing called Masterclass, I. I heard that you were going to be on there. I took that masterclass and it was like having my own private tutor. That thing was amazing.

I'm like, I encouraged everybody I knew, any writer I knew, like, dude, just drop the 100 bucks or whatever it was and take that class. Did you like that experience?

James Patterson
00:25:40

Yeah, it was great. I, it was one of these things you get approached to do things and you go.

One of the things they did is right off the bat they put money up and you go, okay, well this is for real. It's not just somebody's total pipe dream. And then the guy they brought in had, he was a documentary director.

He had been nominated for a couple of academies, so he was very good. And we only shot for a couple of days. I was very pointed and they were great to work with.

And then it went out there and I don't know, I mean it's been a while now, but you know, for the first, actually it was the first one they ever did.

Dave Temple
00:26:19

They.

James Patterson
00:26:19

Then Serena Williams after that and a few other, you know, they got a bunch of people in the, in the first year, but it was, the experience was terrific and they, they study, you know, every, everything that's being done on there. And for years it was, it was. Had the highest rating of anything that they had on there.

I don't know if it still does or how it rates anymore, but at the time it did and people do. People found it useful.

Dave Temple
00:26:49

Yeah, well, I found it terribly useful. Hey Jim, real quick question.

What do you think was the, do you have out of all these books, all these series, all these awards, what's the, what's that one accomplishment that you know, you'd say I'm the most proud of this?

James Patterson
00:27:08

Well, I, I like the fact that I. It's the breadth of the work. I mean the Alice Cross, A Woman's Murder Club, Jane Smith. I mentioned kids books which are very different.

You know, I find middle school the worst years of my life. Maximum ride. I mean the breadth is, is unusual to say the least.

Yeah, the, the autobiography, some of the non fiction, Walking My Combat Boots, ER Nurses. Those are really, I think valuable books. I do this with Matt Eversman. Matt was the actual sergeant portrayed in that movie Black Buck Down.

He's a good friend of mine down here, you know, X Ranger and our Mission. Well, for Walking the Combat Boots Was that if you've been in combat, you would say Everest men at Patterson got it right.

And if you're one of these people that likes to BS that you really understand things you don't, you would read this and say, okay, I really didn't understand the military and now I kind of do. Or ER nurses. You would go like, oh my God, I don't know how anybody does that job. It's so intense.

We just finished one on teachers and once again I want people to read it and go, damn. I mean it's unbelievable. How can anybody be a teacher anymore? Because the pressure.

You've got the parents who are out of control, you got the kids who, who are out of control. You've got the left coming after you get the right coming after them. You've got the school.

You know, it's just, it's, and telling them how to, how to teach. Yeah. So it's just very. Anyway, but that, so I love that particular, that, that, that thing. I love doing the kids books.

I not doing as many now because it's, it just got complicated in terms of stores. You know, it just won't stock kids book. Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:28:53

And along kind of a similar line because I'm always fascinated by this. Who would you say along the road has given the best advice to you that you went.

James Patterson
00:29:04

No, my grandmother was the one. She was the one. She said, look, you know, I know you like to play basketball. You're not going to play in the NBA. You can't go to your left. Really?

Grandma? How'd you know that? You know, you never guarded me, but you're right.

But she was, you know, different things like humpy dogs run faster, which was one of her things, and go out and chop the wood and but she basically said, look, you put your mind to it, you can do most things that you want to do. Yeah. And she believed in me.

You know, my dad came out of a, you know, he grew up in the Newburgh poor house and he very bright guy, but he didn't have a lot of confidence in himself. So he wasn't one to sort of like, well, go take chances. He was like, well, why don't you just get a regular job at an insurance company?

And you know, so that wasn't good advice. But, but my grandmother was a big one. Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:29:52

Is that where the title for your substack came from?

James Patterson
00:29:55

Yeah. Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:29:57

It's so good. Well, I, I, I want to make sure I hit Holmes is missing.

You know, the one thing I loved about this book is that you know, it's classic, classic Patterson short chapters, swift reading, perfectly timed hooks, peppered, witty one liners. It's just a one of again one of your greatest reads. I know it's already available.

James Patterson
00:30:19

It' you know the, this is the second one. It's just a fun idea. The idea that you're going to take the talent and the skill set of Holmes, Marple and Poe and put them in one book.

But it's contemporary and these are people who either are descendants of. Well in Poe's case Poe in some cases the characters or the writer. You know, the writers and the characters who write.

And I just thought that was a fun idea. It's kind of like a literary Avengers or something, you know.

So, so I, I, I, I just, I, I love the idea of it and I thought it turned out really well. And my partner in there, Brian sits this is Bryant is like spectacular and the guy never written any fiction until he was like 68 years old.

What we did a kids a TV show together and which won a bunch of Emmys but, but he had never done any fiction and I said well let's try. So I did one when I was doing the bookshops, the novellas. We did one together and, and I've been writing with them since. He's, he's just great.

He's, he's one of the best collaborators I have.

Dave Temple
00:31:28

And that's something I'm curious. How do you, Jim, how do you find your collaborators? Is it strictly you going to them or them coming to you or just.

James Patterson
00:31:37

People that I, I. Well, I mean you know with in terms of like President Clinton and so that's a whole different thing.

I do have a lot of people now who come and want to collaborate but in the beginning it was a lot of people that I'd worked with some in advertising like Brian Sits was in advertising and you know, people that I knew they were pretty good writers. Peter DeYoung was in advertising when I did the bookshots wasn't pretty good at solving problems. I just went out.

One of the things I did when I was I need because I was doing like three a month right novellas. That was the year I did 2700 pages of outlines and, and 22 full length novels. But what one of the things I did there's.

I forget the exact title but it was a best mystery short stories of that year the next whatever the hell is and I just went through and started reading the short stories and picking out people who I thought would be good collaborators like Andy Burrell, who I've done the. Some of the Texas Rangers stuff with. I just read one of his short stories, and I call him up. I said, I don't know.

You want to try something because you're good. Yeah.

Dave Temple
00:32:49

And so it's really that easy?

James Patterson
00:32:52

Well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could work with most people and get something done. I did a couple with.

With Master Class, where we went out and, you know, they just put the word out and people wrote an idea and a chapter, and I did two of the novels with. I. I don't think they really worked out great, which surprised me because I taught them how to do it, but they didn't listen.

Dave Temple
00:33:18

I was gonna say, between teaching them how to do it and then the fact that you're such a specific outliner, I would think it would be kind of a layup.

James Patterson
00:33:29

It's certainly. While it. It fails, but it's rare. And. And sometimes it's just because the person doesn't really want to do it that way, and that's okay. But go.

You have to go by yourself now. Yes. The outline starts everything. But this isn't a stick to the outline thing. I don't. I'm always changing. I never know the ending.

The ending is always in the outline, but that's never the. Almost never the ending in the book.

Dave Temple
00:33:57

See, this is funny because I always ask all the writers who come on the show, you know, the old classic, everybody hates this phrase, plotter and pantser.

James Patterson
00:34:06

But do you.

Dave Temple
00:34:06

Do you do an outline? Oh, I don't, because I like to be surprised. And then the others, if I don't, I don't know where I'm going.

How can I find a trip if I don't have the map? So you sound like a kind of an amalgamation of that.

James Patterson
00:34:18

No, I want to know where I'm going, but I'm not. I'm not. I'm not stuck on it. And it be. Because you'll be.

You're writing something, all of a sudden you're really loving one of the characters you didn't think you would or. One of the things I'll do when I do drafts is I'll. I'll go through. I'll do one whole polish, and I just look at every chapter. It went this way.

What if it went this way and I changed and that. And that's where a lot of surprises come from. Oh, yeah, you were expecting that, and I was, too.

But we're not going to do that because we're going to change it.

Dave Temple
00:34:50

Yeah, we'll be back with more of James Patterson here on the premiere of season eight right after this. Holmes, reliably brilliant and dangerously unreliable. Po, a man of action with secrets that will tear his team apart.

Marple, the one holding all of this together.

James Patterson
00:35:16

And the greatest mystery is if this.

Dave Temple
00:35:18

Team, Holmes, Marple and Poe will survive. And now back to the show. You know, it's so funny. I was talking to some friends who, I said you were going to be on the show.

And I said, they said, how do you suppose he comes up with all these ideas? And do you think he'll ever run out of ideas? And all I could say was, do you ever run out of ideas of things that you would enjoy going to do? No.

Then, you know, why would you. If you, if you have any imagination at all.

James Patterson
00:35:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No. Somewhere in the background there is a big box. And in there is. It's about this thick with the clever title ideas on it.

It literally says ideas on the top. I might change. God damn it. I'm tired of that. I'm going to say something else there.

Dave Temple
00:36:03

I think I remember. I think it was CBS did an interview and they went into your office and you had all these sliding drawers. And I'm like, yeah. Is that the.

Basically the idea box.

James Patterson
00:36:14

The idea box is literally a box. It's somewhere back there when, when CBS came, I think I was doing the bookshops and those drawers were all filled with.

I can't remember what we did that year. Like 45 novellas. It was nuts.

Dave Temple
00:36:29

I always thought that was a brilliant idea.

James Patterson
00:36:31

Oh, well, I thought it was a good idea, too. It's, you know, the publisher was really afraid of it.

And my thing was, look, this is a good thing because there are a lot of people out there that they, they want something they can finish in a couple hours, and that's okay. That's not going to put. Put books out of business. That's going to just make more people read more.

Dave Temple
00:36:50

Right?

James Patterson
00:36:50

Because a lot of people, that's what they got. I got my two hours, man. That's all I, you know, and now, you know, the attention span keeps getting less.

And when I was going out with Clinton, he, he would, he said that, you know, the, the attention span of a butterfly is 9 seconds, human seconds, you know, like that.

Dave Temple
00:37:07

It's a sad commentary on us all. And I think it has to do with a combination between this little gadget that you're always scrolling on.

James Patterson
00:37:15

I don't touch the bastard. No car. If I'm going out Just in case, you know, I break down or something. But I don't. I. I don't. I don't do any of that.

Dave Temple
00:37:24

I think if we could stop and realize how much time we do this and we can capture it all back in just one day.

James Patterson
00:37:32

They'll never do it, but you know how they'll do this stuff on you? Count your steps and all this crap on the front or whatever. They could do that.

Where you could go, like, you have now wasted six hours of your day, jackass, or whatever. Or. Or at a certain point, you can set the phone to, okay, you've done.

You use your two and a half hours, and it just goes off, and it won't go on again until tomorrow.

Dave Temple
00:37:55

Well, you know, there is an app that does.

James Patterson
00:37:57

Is there an app that does.

Dave Temple
00:37:58

There's an app that. It doesn't turn it off, but it says, you know, you run out of your spare time. But I like your touch in that. It'll just shut down.

James Patterson
00:38:08

Shut down and give you a shock.

Dave Temple
00:38:10

Yeah. And then not come back on until, like, 24 hours later.

James Patterson
00:38:15

Give you a shot when it comes back on, too.

Dave Temple
00:38:17

Yeah, yeah.

James Patterson
00:38:18

I'm not against it. I just. It's just not for me.

Dave Temple
00:38:21

Yeah. Well, as we start to wrap up, there's a couple things. I got, like, three closing questions. The first one is not about writing.

James Patterson
00:38:28

And it's an honest thing. Most people, like journalists, podcast people, they say one more question, and then they keep asking.

At least you're honestly saying, I have three questions to end this thing. I'm very, very impressed and proud of you. Go ahead.

Dave Temple
00:38:42

It is only three. I might squeeze in the next room.

But, yeah, number one, if you could go back and do it again, because we started off the show with this, and you could master it the same way that you have mastered a profound writing career. Could you ever see yourself as a professional golfer? Would. Would that have been a cool dream?

James Patterson
00:39:01

No, no, no, no. Don't have it. Just don't have it.

Dave Temple
00:39:04

Easy. Number two, if you and sue, by the way, loved reading about your wife Sue. That.

James Patterson
00:39:09

That.

Dave Temple
00:39:09

That is a love story, folks. You want to read a great true blue love story again? See this.

James Patterson
00:39:16

It really is. I'm lucky or semi smart about, you know, whatever one of the lines in the book is, if whoever leaves me, I'm going with her.

And there's truth to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She doesn't hold the same thing, though. I think she does good Britons, you.

Dave Temple
00:39:36

Know, Listen, true story. Two hours ago, over coffee with my Wife. I said, tammy, come in here. I said, read the last sentence of this book. She read it.

A tear came to her eyes, and she goes, just like us. And I went, that guy's a little softy.

James Patterson
00:39:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you know, I. I think appropriate about. I mean, it can be hard when you have to be and.

Dave Temple
00:39:59

Yeah.

James Patterson
00:40:00

Because the world. If you don't, the world's going to just beat your brains in. But. Yeah. Yeah, mainly, you know, I.

I think that's a big thing about writing, too, that you can. You can pull back and be very rational about things, but you heart. Heart and mind. That they're both working and, And. And. And, you know, if.

If it's supposed to be emotional, that. And you're not afraid to be emotional. I mean, that's another thing about a lot of. A lot of modern stuff. Well, you're not supposed to be emotional.

Why not? What's that all about?

Dave Temple
00:40:28

I don't, you know, says I call on that.

James Patterson
00:40:31

It's one thing for somebody to write their book the way they want to write it, but it's another thing to sort of lay out. And you hit it all the time with movies, you know, where they'll sit there. What the hell is the one. Oh, the.

The conclave where they insist on putting the reviews in the first paragraph. That, you know, it's kind of a pot boiler. I mean, you mean because there's a little bit of a plot to it and that, you know, then that's a bad thing.

I don't know. You know, whatever.

Dave Temple
00:40:54

Here's number three. Oh, no, I. I went off on Sue. Number two. Here, you and. You and sue gonna join Tammy and I for a dinner party. This is one of my favorite questions.

I just find it fascinating. You get to invite two friends to join us. So it'll be six of us just.

James Patterson
00:41:08

Invite you and just bring four friends here we like.

Dave Temple
00:41:10

I'm gonna. It's gonna be, you and sue gonna join Tammy and. Are you gonna invite two people, living or dead? Who would they be and why?

James Patterson
00:41:17

I'm gonna invite Lupic and his wife because they're really cool and we love them. And, you know, I just. Rather than taking chances on, you know, Shakespeare and his boyfriend. I don't know. You know. Yeah, I. I don't know. I.

I'd have to think. Think it through a little bit. But, you know, Will and it's Marlowe or who knows? And you're like, you know what?

I can't understand a word you got them saying. It seemed like A good idea, but, you know, and you, and you, you speak and you know rhymes, and it's too much for me.

Dave Temple
00:41:45

Yeah. All right, last one here. Standard clothes. What is your best writing advice to future writers?

James Patterson
00:41:53

I never. I never give advice. I. I don't. I, you know, in. In the master class, I even say that. I say, like, I'm not here to give advice.

I'll just tell you what I do, you know, I, I. You want to make money, you know, the loss of real estate. Location, location. Story, story, story. Tell a story, man. Tell a story. Don't waste it.

Don't waste time. Don't waste my time to tell me. Tell your story.

Dave Temple
00:42:15

On that point and referencing an earlier conversation we talked about. Do you remember reading. Well, I know you're a fan of.

Of Bonfire, the Vanities by Thomas Wolf, like me, but by the time he got to the man book, I can't remember whatever way.

James Patterson
00:42:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The one that they made a miniseries or something down in Atlanta.

Dave Temple
00:42:34

Yeah. Which was not great.

Did you ever say to yourself, you know, going into a room, describing the room, giving me the background of the room before you actually get to the action, does that ever get on your nerve like it does mine?

James Patterson
00:42:48

Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Occasionally somebody is so good, you just go, I don't care. They're so good. I just love reading it. I'm in the room. It's true.

It's. It's. It's just feeling. It's just right, you know, so sometimes. But mostly not so much. No.

You know, I did love Bonfire and, you know, a couple of his other things, but. But he can also get off and be so wordy. And now I. Not. Not my cup of tea. A lot of the stuff he did.

Dave Temple
00:43:11

Well, I think it was interesting as we wrap. I think it was interesting. I've learned three things that we have in common.

Number one, we're both big Don Win fan, and he lives right up the road from here.

James Patterson
00:43:22

Oh, really? Oh, okay, okay. And he sort of fake retired. I don't believe that for a minute. I don't believe it, man. He's coming back. He can't leave us like this.

Dave Temple
00:43:31

You know, I keep saying the same thing. I talked to him the other day. I'm like, dude, is that real? Dude, I said it. I'm. I'm retired. I'm like, but you guys, you're still young.

You got so many stories to tell.

James Patterson
00:43:41

He's very good. He's very good.

Dave Temple
00:43:43

Number two, you and I both shared a scare of prostate Cancer?

James Patterson
00:43:47

No, I'm fine. And. But part of it is do the test. Do the test, do the test. You know, I'm still doing the test.

If something came up, the last test, that's fine, but they pick stuff up and. Yeah, you want to, you know, do. Do the colonoscopy, do the prostate. Yeah, yeah. Oh, if I just taking the test, I wouldn't be dying now.

You don't do that.

Dave Temple
00:44:08

Yeah, no bueno. And number three, I learned just yesterday. Your son and I, Jack, we share the same birthday.

James Patterson
00:44:16

Oh, really? Okay, well. Okay, well, the next time. When February 7th. Is it the 7th? 8th. 8th. 8th. So close.

Dave Temple
00:44:27

Yeah. Yeah.

James Patterson
00:44:29

He doesn't mind getting your presence a day early. It's fine.

Dave Temple
00:44:32

Yeah. Happy birthday a week, a month from now.

James Patterson
00:44:34

All right, well, I'll remember that, Tammy.

Dave Temple
00:44:37

Yeah. Thank you.

James Patterson
00:44:38

This is terrific. Good for Adam. And you see, Winslow, say hello. I'm a massive fan, and he really pisses me off by not writing any more books.

I can stare at three of his books right there in my thing. I can't read them.

Dave Temple
00:44:51

But you have a favorite of his, by the way.

James Patterson
00:44:53

Most of them. The last trilogy. Not as much as the earlier stuff, but yeah, a lot of it. The cartel stuff, everybody. That. Those were long. I mean, yeah.

How do you write a book and kill, like 40,000 people in one book? But, you know. But he got away with it. No, some of them, I'm bad. I'm remembering the one they made, the movie with Oliver Stone. I like the Savages.

Dave Temple
00:45:16

Oh, that was great.

James Patterson
00:45:17

I forget some of the ones long titles with somebody's name in them. I'm bad. My memory is bad for the cool.

Dave Temple
00:45:25

Breeze on the underground, things like that. Yeah. Anyway, well, folks, the. His book is. Holmes is missing, of course. I want to throw this out here.

I'm going to say this as though Jim's not still sitting here. This is a book. The stories of my life. You got to read this. There's two things I want you to leave this show thinking. I want you to. I want to.

I want you to. Well, three. Okay, you got to read Holmes is missing. You got to read this autobiography, and you got to go take the master class, for crying out loud.

It's just.

James Patterson
00:45:53

It's. Well, that's a lot of good. A lot of good stuff.

Dave Temple
00:45:56

Thank you, James.

James Patterson
00:45:57

Thank you. Bye. Thanks, Jim. Thank you. Damn it. Why did you set that up? Oh, my God. Jesus. Oh, no, he's still there. All right, bye. Bye.

Dave Temple
00:46:10

See ya. Oh, that's so good. Man, oh, man. How Much fun was that. Now that is a way to kick off a new year. Happy 2025.

Only one of our biggest heroes in the world. Prolific writer, funny guy. And if the dad gum technical issues weren't what they were, we could have had a little bit better audio and video. Mr.

Patterson, Jeff decided he wanted to do Zoom, which I never use.

James Patterson
00:46:38

Zoom.

Dave Temple
00:46:39

I hate Zoom. Zoom sucks. There, I said it. But you know, he needed it. That's fine. I use Riverside Fm not getting any endorsement money for that. Although I should.

But boy, we would have had 4k high def. Could have switched cameras back and forth, superb audio, all that stuff, folks, that's just me being a perfectionist.

Can't help it, just kind of way I roll. But man, what a fun, fun time and a funny guy and a prolific writer. All right, now that is the way to kick off the new year.

And as you now know, our shows are dropping on Thursdays. That's 2am Pacific, 5am Eastern. We like to get a jump on things, but welcome to our Thriller Thursdays.

Now you're thinking to yourself, Dave, can you top that? Well, I'm not exactly sure I can top it, but I can get pretty darn close. Host Scott Turro. You know this number one New York Times bestselling author.

Remember the book Presumed Innocent? I don't remember when I read that, but it was a long time ago and I loved it.

And I got turned into a TV show with Jake Gyllenhaal and you can see that on Apple TV plus and I think Amazon prime too. But his new book is called Presumed Guilty. And we're going to be talking to Mr. Scott Turrou two Thursdays from now to discuss Presumed Guilty.

Now, you may be wondering, Dave, why are you not on every Thursday?

Well, to be honest with you, and I mentioned this earlier, there was a, there was a moment when I was hanging out with Adam Hamdi right there around Christmas time, and I said, dude, I. This might be my last show. And he's like, no. Anyway, long story short, he said, anybody you haven't had on?

I said, yeah, James Patterson, that would be a dream, dream come true. And he made a call and it happened. So huge kudos for that.

But what I am saying is, you know, the energy from my prostate cancer treatment has taken a little wind out of my sails. Now I am coming back around and I'm very happy to say that I'm currently cancer free, but my energy isn't quite what it was these last three years.

So what I'm doing Is I'm just pacing myself. Tammy says, dave, why do you work so hard? I'm like, you know, good question.

So this is the old boy just saying he's taking a little breather, taking it easy. What I really want to do is I want to spend more time with each show, you know, banging them out every week.

You gotta, you gotta read the book, you gotta make your notes. It's a whole lot of work. But this way now I can just spend a little more time and care and attention to the books.

Maybe part of it is just the books that I want to read. Part of it is I want some real hitters in here. You know, I, I'd love to help everybody in the whole world, I really would.

I just don't have the time and I don't have the energy. You know the biggest reason I don't have the time because I am working on my own books.

Yeah, I've got a non fiction book I think I've told you about this, about my journey through prostate cancer and that is going to be hopefully coming out. Man, I'd love to have it come out this spring or summer, who knows? I'm not in control.

But I will, I will say if you know anything about me, if I can't get some control on it, I may just put it up myself. Anyway, either way, I'm working on that one.

Plus I have a fantastic thriller I've been working on for over a year and I think I'm gonna, I think I'm getting close. That is going to be coming out, let's hope sometime this year, if not this end of this year, first of next.

But you know me, I got a few irons in the fire. I've also got a little screenplay project I'm working on. God, I would love to make another movie.

I made a movie years back as you know, Chasing Grace and it was quite a journey. Just about took everything out of me. Don't ask Tammy about it because she'd like what. But anyway, we'll see. It's a, it's a pipe dream.

But folks, thank you for joining me for this launch of season eight. We have rolled through three years, we're going into our fourth before you know it, for crying out loud, 211 episodes. Scott Chero will make 212.

And then, boy, have we got a February lined up for you. Anyway, I'll tell you about that later. I'm going to scoot on out of here. You make it a great day and I look forward to talking to you soon.

If you have any questions or concerns you want to get in touch with me. The thriller thrillerzone gmail.com. if you can't remember that, you can remember my website, the thrillerzone.com and just hit the contact button.

Of course, you got to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Guess what? YouTube.com the Thriller Zone. Follow us on X if we're still there. The Thriller Zone. On Instagram, the Thriller Zone.

Facebook The Thriller Zone. LinkedIn The Thriller Zone. See a recurring pattern here. Thanks again to Jim Patterson. Wow.

Yeah, boy, I'm gonna be living off of the high for that for some time. Anyway, like I said, Dave Temple, you're your host. I'll see you next time for another edition of the Thriller Zone.